And When I Die... (page 3)

Chalam

Hi,
It is all explained here...

[url]http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=15&version=31&context=chapter[/url]

Regards,
Stephen

I read Al Kooper's memoirs, Backstage Passes & Backstabbing Bastards a while back. Very interesting and those really were some strange days. I had seen his name numerous times but I'm not the type that generally delves into the names behind the music and I knew nothing of him.

Farkel

Greetings Chalam,

You provided a reference to 1 Cor. 15, which presents a twisted and dizzying bunch of circular reasoning:

"12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

IF Christ was raised from the dead, then there must be a resurrection. If not, then there is no resurrection. If not, then all preaching about a resurrection and all faith about it is useless.

Since Paul found it impossible to think that his faith was useless, and since his faith made him believe in the resurrection, then the resurrection must be a fact! In otherwords, as Paul stated, your faith is useless if there was no resurrection of Christ, and your faith is important if there was because Paul believed there was a resurrection!

" 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men."

Paul conveniently left out yet another possibility and thus created a false dilemma. It could be possible that Christ was resurrected, but humans won't be. The resurrection of Christ and the resurrection of the rest of mankind are not mutually inclusive.

" 20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep."

Because of his sophistry, Paul's conclusion that Christ was resurrected and that there also must be a resurrection of the rest of mankind does not follow.

Paul DOES state in this chapter that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, which gets to the gist of why I started this thread. In the Kingdom of God, there will be no sights, no sounds, no smells, no tastes, no orgasms or anything else associated with human bodies. At least not as we now experience those sensations.

Carpe Noctum!

Farkel

Big Tex

I've been thinking more and more about death, the inevitability of it has started to weigh on me. It doesn't seem so bad now, almost comforting in a way. I've come to the conclusion that either atheists have it right or one of the religious franchises do.

On the one hand there is oblivion. Which isn't really so bad. Just like a dreamless sleep. And there's no pain, no possibility of being hurt or experiencing rejection or having an accountant-like bean counter sit in judgment for every tiny error or even eternal torture. All in all, I say this is a more appealing prospect.

On the other hand, there is the possibility that there is indeed some sort of god-like Higher Power. Religion seems, to me at least, somewhat conflicted about whether this Power is benevolent or harsh or even cruel. I have tried for most of my life to resolve this conflict, but so far I've failed to come to an answer that is satisfactorily accurate. When I look at my life, I ask myself if there is a benevolent being, why am I ignored? And then I look at others who have gone through truly horrific experiences and I ask why there is no intervention or help for them.

Currently I am forced to conclude that if there is a Higher Power it is either (1) a cruel being; (2) it doesn't really give a tinker's dam about us; or (3) does care but lacks the power to make a difference. I consider the second option the most likely. So when I die, and there is a Higher Power, I consider that I have a 1 in 3 chance of something halfway decent happening to me.

I'm not terribly interested in what the Bible says as I do not believe God is a Christian. I'm much more interested in real life than fantasies written by semi-illiterate shepherds thousands of years ago (however much those fantasies might make me feel good). The Bible is an interesting book, but that's all it is. I wish it weren't, but I see no evidence in my life to think otherwise.

If there is a Higher Power I hope whatever it does with me doesn't hurt. Odds are it will, and so I find the atheist's answer more comforting than religon's answer.

"I don't like pain. It hurts too much." -- Daffy Duck

changeling

Moonshadow

Artist: Cat Stevens

I'm being followed by a moon shadow
moon shadow-moon shadow
leaping and hopping on a moon shadow
moon shadow-moon shadow
and if I ever lose my hands
lose my plough, lose my land
oh, if I ever lose my hands
oh, if...
I won’t have to work no more
and if I ever lose my eyes
If my colours all run dry
yes, if I ever lose my eyes
oh if …
I won't have to cry no more.
yes, I'm being followed by a moon shadow
moon shadow - moon shadow
leaping and hopping on a moon shadow
moon shadow - moon shadow
and if I ever lose my legs
I won't moan and I won't beg
of (oh)* if I ever lose my legs
oh if...
I won't have to walk no more
And if I ever lose my mouth
all my teeth, north and south
yes, if I ever lose my mouth
oh if...
I won't have to talk...
Did it take long to find me
I ask the faithful light
Ooh did it take long to find me
And are you going to stay the night
I'm being followed by a moon shadow
moon shadow - moon shadow
leaping and hopping on a moon shadow
moon shadow - moon shadow
moon shadow - moon shadow
moon shadow - moon shadow

anewme

The problem is that humans have a hard time accepting the thought of non-existence, so much so that
they invent and believe everything and anything which might support an eternal future.
To relieve this dilemma would be to come to terms with and accept the thought of life and consciousness
coming to an end.
This would bring calm to the human heart and allow a person to focus on and cherish the present moment and relish life and the many good times they have had.
It might also lead an individual to desire to contribute in some substantial way to the welfare of others on the earth since they will continue to have a need and he will soon have no needs.

Since I was shown such a lack of mercy and understanding by "Gods Org on Earth" I question everything they told me about God and truth and heaven and reality.

I feel like I was suckered into that cult.

I will continue to hone my skills at accepting my future oblivion with a smile.

stillajwexelder

My sentiments exactly

Open mind

Here's another possibility courtesy of the Squirrel Nut Zippers (or was it Dante?):

HELL

In the afterlife
You could be headed for the serious strife
Now you make the scene all day
But tomorrow there'll be Hell to pay

People listen attentively
I mean about future calamity
I used to think the idea was obsolete
Until I heard the old man stamping his feet

{Refrain}

This is a place where eternally
Fire is applied to the body
Teeth are extruded and bones are ground
Then baked into cakes which are passed around

{Refrain}

Beauty, talent, fame, money
Refinement, top skill and brain
But all the things you try to hide
Will be revealed on the other side

{Refrain}

Now the D and the A and the M and the N
And the A and the T and the I-O-N
Lose your face, lose your name
Then get fitted for a suit of flame

******************************

I really like the "cakes which are passed around" part.

I love those guys. Nowhere near in the same league as Blood Sweat & Tears, but they crack me up.

:-)

OM

Perry

If your an atheist, (or an indoctrinated JW) then a person can simply imagine it's all pretty easy..... just slip off into non existence. Of course if that is not true then the person has a clear and present problem on their hands if there is a God with a sense of justice that demands punishment of sin.

Hebrews 9:27 - "it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment"

Thankfully, that same God who demands justice directed his wrath towards his own being when he incarnated himself and took the punishment rightly reserved for us.

2 Cor. 5: 21- For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Cor. 11:24 - And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Col. 1: 14 - In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Is. 53:5 - But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All a person has to do is be really sorry for their shortcomings and ask Jesus to pay the debt that will surely be served up on Judgment Day.

bebu

Hmm.

If our physical noses and ears and eyes (etc) have provided sensory abilities for a physical world, and these senses are experienced in our brains...

We will also obviously end up brainless!

--Or, just have other means of experiencing the kinds of sensations that our physical brains afford. And then some.

bebu

And When I Die...

Chalam

knock knock

Farkel

Big Tex

changeling

Moonshadow

anewme

stillajwexelder

Open mind

Perry

bebu

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