My Personal Proof That Elders Are Not Appointed by Holy Spirit (page 3)

OnTheWayOut

This is from one of my own last threads:

The guy who was my roommate before marriage was just appointed an elder. I was
a member of the judicial committee that reproved him about 14 years ago. He had
relations with his fiancee then they confessed to the elders a few years later. His wife
left him over psychological/verbal abuse issues. I know him well enough to know she
should have left him. My best friend was his brother-in-law back then. Even though
my best friend thinks JW's are in "the truth," he refuses to think his ex-brother-in-law
has changed. I asked him if he can put full faith in an organization that makes that
guy an elder. He was silent.

Mrs. OTWO was saying to me, "Wow, Brother [Verbal Abuser] was appointed an elder.

OTWO: Do you think he has changed? He has a different wife, his kids are older, but
do you think he is different?

Mrs. OTWO: Well, his wife can come forward if he hasn't changed.

OTWO: The last Mrs. [Verbal Abuser] (my best friend's sister) didn't get any sympathy
from the brothers. She was labeled as mentally unstable and they never looked into anything
she said about Brother [Verbal Abuser], yet we knew of his problems, and others that know
him know of his problems.

Mrs. OTWO: She was mentally unstable.

OTWO: We haven't spoken to her. We just have the words of those that passed them on.
Wouldn't the type of verbal abuse we suspect she received make her that way. Perhaps she
isn't so unstable except for what he's done to her. Now, the new wife is married to an elder.
How are they going to look at any problems? They are going to tell the elder to get his wife
back in line, so she stops complaining about one of their own.

Mrs. OTWO: I have to assume Holy Spirit appointed him an elder, and will ultimately guide the
situation.

OTWO: You really think Holy Spirit guided his appointment? You couldn't even be sure that
he has changed. How's that work?

Mrs. OTWO: He must have been qualified at the time of appointment, so he must be trying to
do what is right. Judas was qualified, but later lost that qualification.

OTWO: So that's always the answer. At the moment, he was qualified, but if it turns out he isn't
qualified, it's because he changed sometime after the moment of consideration? Do you think
brothers are ever not qualified at the moment of consideration, but slip in anyway?

Mrs. OTWO: If that happens, Jehovah will use them for a purpose for awhile, then will see to it that
the truth is revealed.

OTWO gives a silent AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH !!!!!!

proplog2

Karl Klein was chairman of the governing body when he told my uncle that the original set-up of the elder arrangement in 1972 was a "mutual admiration society".

Of course the Watchtower will claim that the individuals doing the appointing have to act in accord with the spirit. And in a sense they follow the general guideline in the Bible - Husband of one wife, no accusation from outside, example to congregation etc. etc.

Some JW's would argue that Holy Spirit moved TMS to write the Society to inform them of the inconsistencies.

owenfieldreams

Thanks for relating, TMS. In my 30+ yrs of active association with the org, the thing that always struck me about the appointment of elders was how political it always seemed to be.

OUTLAW

TMS..Not dry at all..Actually very good.....I`ve seen a young guy,with no life experience..Still living with mom and dad..Appointed as an Elder.....Why??.....Because..Daddy was an Elder and a bit of a bully..The some of the Elders disapproved,but did nothing..................... Clint Eastwood ...OUTLAW

dinah

Reading all these experiences only cements what I had figured out so long ago.

In my congregation we had two elders appointed by "holy spirit" who were also abusive to their children and wives. Well, I know for a fact one was abusive, the other I am assuming he was because of the problems his adult children have had.

Elder A was my best friend's father. He had six children, and could by no means afford them. My best friend didn't open up about the abuse until we were in our late 20's, although I had suspected it all along. It was REALLY BAD folks. I spent the night at her house once (refused to go back). He came into our bedroom in the middle of the night and just stood there looking at us. I pretended to be asleep. The hair stood up on the back of my neck--it was SO creepy!!.

She stayed at my house when we were kids every time she got the chance and she never wanted to go home. She always wished my Dad was her Dad because he was more of a father to her. He was eventually removed from his elderhood because he grew a beard and four of his children had so far left the truth. Only one remains a witness and she just doesn't have the emotional or mental strength to leave.

All six of Elder A's children have seriously problems dealing with life. I really believe there was sexual abuse going on in that house as well. My friend claims she can't remember it (which is probably true). This sick bastard used to count his daughters' feminine pad boxes to make sure they were having periods and not pregnant. Hmmmmmm, they were hardly allowed to leave the house.

Elder B had four children, all of which have been df'd. He was a stern person and always had a scowl on his face. He was the angriest man I'd ever known. He never smiled.

Would "holy spirit" choose men like this to lead a flock? In CoC Ray Franz said the only thing they looked at was service hours and meeting attendance. I believe that.

(pasted this from the other thread with a similiar title)

primitivegenius

So many wannabe elderesses drag their hubbies out into field service because of their ambitions, write their talks out, study with the kids. But that's another thread. LOL!

oh ive seen that particular scenario played out more times than id like.......... had this one elder who wasnt very smart book wise..... got appointed......... did pretty much NOTHING........ well he would be a yes man and when they had elder meetings to make decisions he would always go with the majority...... but then when that decision (blessed by holy spirit?) was the wrong one.... he would complain that he never felt it was right but he just went along with the other brothers...........

his talks were attrocious........ not because the information wasnt written out well.......... cause his wife worked them up for him.............. but rather because he had no teaching ability...

fact is she wanted to be an elderette....... and when all the other elders did better naturally than her husband did.......... she wanted to start some sort of trouble with them or their wives.

and of course husband elder was lead around by a leash......... so he did EXACTLY what she asked him to. revealing all sorts of confidential elder secrets...........

so yeah of course they are all blessed with holy spirit............ in everything they do lol YEAH RIGHT

proplog2

JK666 You nailed it dead on. Service time is the "currency". It buys all the privileges: Official positions and stage time.

flipper

TMS- My personal " proof is in the pudding " experience was when a self righteous presiding overseer who subbed as a fill in circuit overseer at times told me I should take back my methamphetamine addicted wife after she left me . Doing so would have endangered my teenage children ! When he stated that, " I should visit my kids at a neutral place away from my wife , and not let the kids come to your house, but accept the wife. " I knew he was full of rocks in his brains and a total blockhead. I went to get my books off my seat, took my book bag walked out the door of the kingdom hall, and never went back . That was 4 years ago. I'm never going back. The elders are " cult mind controlled" and insane. As are the rest of em'

ringo5

Thanks, TMS. It may seem dry to the rest of the world because it was such an obvious and mundane human error. But because errors like this happen with no more or no less frequency than regular everyday human transactions, where does the holy spirit fit in?

My own experience would only show the same holy spirit doesn't have any objection to wankers. Regular polisher of the purple bishop didn't seem to affect my appointment to MS

changeling

Thanks for posting your experience, I found it very interesting.

changeling

My Personal Proof That Elders Are Not Appointed by Holy Spirit

Share this