HOLY SPIRIT CONVERSATION STOPPERS...

by Confession 17 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Confession
    Confession

    I just posted this on another thread, but thought I'd give it its own. I hope some of the language is not offensive to anyone.

    ----------------------------

    HOLY SPIRIT CONVERSATIONS STOPPERS...

    If someone asks why certain decisions are made in the congregation, perhaps you could say...

    "Jehovah's Holy Spirit is "guding and directing" the body of elders."

    If someone wonders why, for example, an elder was appointed who soon after was found to be a pedophile, you could say...

    "When Jehovah's Spirt was "operative" upon the body of elders, this man was likely not a pedophile. He became such only after being appointed. Shouldn't we be thankful that Jehovah has now caused this issue to come to the fore?"

    If someone says, "Hey, I wasn't going to say anything, but when I was a kid, this guy molested me too--and that was 20 years ago!" you might try this one...

    "Well if that is so, you should have informed the elders. In not doing so, you were acting out of harmony with Jehovah's Holy Spirit, which eventually righted the wrong anyway. While you no doubt feel victimized by the forced sodomy you were subjected to, have you ever stopped to think about what you personally may have done to cause this situation?"

    If he then says, "What I MAY HAVE DONE??? I was six years old! This wasn't my fault, you asshole!" you might pull this one out on him...

    "It's easy to point the finger of accusation at others. Remember how Adam tried to deflect attention for having eaten the forbidden fruit by blaming Eve? Rather than minimizing your own actions, you're invited to give prayerful consideration to how tight those little pants were that you used to wear. Don't shake your head at me, brother, because I remember them. And while this man's ass raping you cannot be excused, ask yourself, "Did my snug polyester slacks and the resulting naughty bulges contribute to it all?" And, by the way, if you swear at me again, I'm gathering together a Judicial Committee."

    If he then throws up his hands apologetically and says, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. Seriously, I'm sorry. But can we get back to my question? How was this guy appointed an elder by Holy Spirit if he's been a pedophile for at least 20 years?" you could let this one rip...

    "If it doesn't come out in the wash, it'll come out in the rinse."

    If he then looks astonished and says, "What in the hell is that supposed to mean?!" you need to put on a smug, wise facial expression and say...

    "Jehovah will right matters in His own due time, according to His purposes. And by the way, you swore at me again."

    If he says, "Look please don't have me shunned, I'm sorry! I'm just trying to understand how the Almighty creator of the universe allowed this guy to molest little kids for at least twenty years, and how stopping him earlier wasn't "according to His purposes"?!" you should look disappointed and reach for your cell phone, saying in a condescending, sing-song fashion...

    "Looks like some little tight-pantsed boy wants to challenge Jehovah's channel of communication. Hmm. Might hafta make a little telephone cally wally. Bad little boy might have to get a little spanky spanky..."

    Ordinarily this will bring an end to any further difficult questioning. If he persists, call together a committee, investigating allegations that he's an apostate.

  • tula
    tula

    Supreme Court to rule on death penalty for child rape

    Fri., Jan. 4, 2008 4:45pm EST

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Supreme Court said on Friday it would decide whether the death penalty can be imposed for the crime of raping a child, expanding its review of how capital punishment is carried out in the United States.

  • Hortensia
    Hortensia

    well, that would end the conversation or you would be decked by the victim. It's sick that this is exactly how they rationalize it all in their little minds.

  • Hermano
    Hermano

    Hilarious!

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    It would be funny if it wasn't the actual logic the WTS uses.

    "Hey, I wasn't going to say anything, but when I was a kid, this guy molested me too--and that was 20 years ago!" you might try this one...

    "Well if that is so, you should have informed the elders. In not doing so, you were acting out of harmony with Jehovah's Holy Spirit, which eventually righted the wrong anyway.

    The elder may also add "It was your hiding of the crime that stopped the flow of Holy Spirit on the congregation - remember Achan - it is really your fault that this man was able to continue with his actions for so long."

  • botheyesopen
    botheyesopen

    a month before i resigned as an elder, i had the conversation with a few friends who had been shocked by the report of a bethel elder pedophile. in the process i found a pretty good 3-step approach to this issue. i'm new to the forum so please be patient if i say things all of you already know backwards and forwards.. i used an example of someone i know well who had sexually abused all three of his daughters (and "god knows" who else) BEFORE being appointed presiding overseer and serving as an elder for years. (one killed herself after staying drunk for 20 years, another is now df'd for, you guessed it, immorality, and the third one is a beautiful, smart, spiritually-minded 400-pound girl who can't figure out why she can't control her appetite.) knowing the family personally helped me to make the case, as did being an elder at the time, for the group of friends would surely have labeled the story exaggerated or apocryphal had i not been able to confirm the details first-hand. but i believe the logic is good, and here it is: 1. if the holy spirit does ANYTHING AT ALL, it would be to protect the process of appointments of elders. what could be more important than protecting the sheep under their care, especially children who will be taught by their parents and at meetings to trust these men and give them "double honor"? and if ANYTHING falls under the jurisdiction of holy spirit, this would be it. we cannot claim that god saw fit to not interfere in the affairs of this world. this is at the heart of the christian congregation and the bible writer claims that god is directly involved in the process. 2. it would be INCREDIBLY EASY for the holy spirit to reveal something evil on the part of a brother recommended for appointment. (it would require nothing more than for a witness to chance upon the man in the act, or perhaps the holy spirit could have strengthened a victim to speak out.) consider the fact that whenever ANYTHING like this is brought to light, credit is immediately given to god or the holy spirit. when brothers or sisters are busted for smoking or having an extramarital affair, all believe that the event was uncovered by god's spirit, and this view is scriptural. (Proverbs 26:24-26; Hebrews 4:13; 1 Cor 2:10; etc.. hell, Eccl 10:20 even says that a little bird will tell the matter!) 3. if holy spirit did NOTHING to prevent the placing of a predator in the capacity of overseer to his intended prey, then in what way are elders "appointed by holy spirit"? the answer was plain to all: the only thing that can be claimed along these lines is the idea that the principles found at 1 Tim and Titus are in the bible and thus are considered to be a product of holy spirit, so - in theory - elders who recommend others for appointment are following "spirit-produced" guidelines. next question: if the holy spirit does not have an ACTIVE ROLE in these situations, how can we believe it is active in obviously less important ones? (i'll try to keep future postings shorter)

  • botheyesopen
    botheyesopen

    sorry about that long paragraph - still figuring out how to use this system.. hopefully got it now.

  • Alicia J.
    Alicia J.

    for the person who wrote this HOLY SPIRIT CONVERSATION STOPPERS you must really not having anything to do important with your time but too sit up there and make up something that is definately not HILARIOUS..... AND NO THIS IS NOT HOW WE THINK!!!!

  • White Dove
    White Dove

    So, Alicia, how was it handled in your case? Or how was it handled when you posed a similar question/concern with an elder in your congregation? You know the saying about walking a mile in someone else's shoes before passing judgement.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Welcome Alicia, I can assure you that it is very much how the Watchtower process is, that is why the Watchtower Society has been paying millions in compensation to victims of pedophilia. It is not only how elders act, it is how the Watchtower Society directed them to act (even if the article here was written tongue in cheek.) Please stick around and keep reading as you will come to see significant proof that the Watchtower Society is not Jehovah's Organization.

    Welcome botheyesopen, your reasoning is spot on. A similar thing happened when I was at Bethel and it woke me up that holy spirit does not direct the organization. Elders are appointed whilst committing Gross wrongdoing, yet the Watchtower claims that holy spirit is directly involved in appointments (http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/holyspirit.htm). When I raised the contradiction with the Bethel elders, they started to backpedal and say that the holy spirit only indirectly was involved through the principles in the Bible. In that case, JWs are no different than any other religion that tries to follow the Bible. It is an argument that the Watchtower Society can not win, and the key to proving that they are not directed by Jehovah.

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