The occultic roots of the WTBTS and 1799 to 1914 beliefs in Secret Societys

by Gill 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Gill
    Gill

    Nice to be back! I missed you all!

    I only have a few minutes to post tonight but have been studying cults, secret societies, occultic beliefs etc blah de blah.

    I was rather shocked in my multiple readings these last couple of weeks to discover that 'secret societies', 'apocalyptic cults', esoteric belief groups etc share a common belief with the WTBTS and I wonder if any others of you realised this. Many times MASONIC links with JWs have been denied on this board, quite understandably as it all sounds too far fetched to believe that Russell was a Mason or perhaps even Rutherford. However, the MASONS are NOT the ONLY secret organization or group that have and do exist.

    BUT, 1799 is believed to mark the beginning of the end in many apocalyptic orgs, 'secret societies' etc and 1914 believed to also be A if not THE most important turning point in the beginning of the planet's final apocalyptic history.

    I have only one link to post at the moment which is evidence of Watchtower beliefs on the significance of 1799:

    http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/TV7AE4OLO819JLREV

    And I have been reading 'Secret Societies, The Secret HIstory of the World' name of author escapes me at the moment but will get back to that with a direct quote later.

    I had always believed that the dating the WTBTS gives is something unusual to itself, only to discover that this is a very common belief among various secret organization, cults and apocalypse mongers.

    Am I foolish to be so suprised? Maybe. But still, the roots of the WTBTS, as it delves deeper into the long lost mists of time seem to be more and more peculiar, occultic and bizarre.

  • TD
    TD

    Many times MASONIC links with JWs have been denied on this board, quite understandably as it all sounds too far fetched to believe that Russell was a Mason or perhaps even Rutherford.

    Masonry was almost mainstream before the 20th century. One of my grandfathers was a Mason, all four great-grandfathers were, and so on. That's probably true of many people besides myself.

    I don't think the possibility that Russell could have been a Mason is farfetched at all. The possibility gets dismissed because the only evidences for this are weak inferences, but even if Russell had been a Mason, I'm not sure how that by itself would have made the roots of the JW faith occultic.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    What do secret societies have to do with the date 1799? That date derives from Adventist and pre-Adventist eschatological speculation about the 1,260 days of Revelation (related to the 1,290 days of Daniel), speculation that held even before the date 1799 came to pass that the Papacy would end in that year, attacked by the Beast. Then it turned out that Pope Pius VI was forced out of the Vatican by Napoleon's forces (with Napoleon = the Beast) in 1798 and the pope died in exile in 1799 -- a string of events that seemed to fulfill the prophecy. And like how WWI was used to claim that 1914 was "fulfilled", so the later Adventists used the confirmation of the expectation of 1799 to claim that this was a striking fulfillment of Bible prophecy, and it became a fundamental eschatological date for the Adventist movement as a whole.

    Here is one dicussion of the Watchtower Society's early interpretation of eschatological dates inherited from Millerism and later Second Adventism:

    http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/revelation.htm

  • Gill
    Gill

    Occult simply means 'secret knowledge'.

    First, I wish to apologise as the quote I am going to refer to refers to the date of 1789 and not 1799. It's difficult to quote ad hoc from this book as it traces the evolution of human consciousness rather than and actual physical history but it points to the occultic, esoteric, and secret beliefs that are withheld from 'ordinary' so called 'drones' of human society and the power held over them by those with the esoteric knowledge. But, this quote is still interesting even taken out of the context of human consciousness development. Here goes:

    'In 1789 The Armies of Angels led by St Michael won a vicotry in heaven. In order for this victory to be decisive, though, it would have to be fought again on earth.

    On 28th June 1914 Rasputin was overtaken by the plot to kill him. ON the very same day Archduke Ferdinand of Austria was assassinated.

    All Hell broke loose.

    Much has been written about the evil occult influences on Germany in the early twentietyh century. Less well known is the story of the occult influences in Russia at the time of the Revolution. We have already touche on St Martin, Papus and Rasputin. What is little know is the occult influence behind their enemies, the revolutionary communists.

    As I have already suggested, Marxism can be seen as a materialistic reframing of the fraternal ideals of Freemasonry. The revolutionary cell structure instigated by Lenin and Trotsky was closely modelled on by the working methods of Weishaupt. Marx, Engels and trotsky were Freemasons. Lenin was a Freemason of the 31st degree, a member of several lodges including the lodge of the NIne Sisters, the most important lodge to have been infiltrated by the followers of nihilistic philosophy of the Illuminati. Lenin and Trotsky waged war on God.

    But there is a deeper mystery here. How was a man like Lenin able to bend millions of people to his will? This seems to go beyond the sinister strategies of a Weishaupt.

    The US military research into occult ways of gaining advantage over the Soviet Union has been well documented. Key personnel have given testimony which seems authentic, though the results semm to have been pretty limited.

    What is only now beginning to emerge is the much more extreme - and successful - use of the occult by government agencies of the Old Soviet Union. Some reluctant initiates have survived to speak of the 'red initiation,' of the training to become secret agants which took place in former monasteries. It seems that occult techniques were employed to strenthen the will to a supernatural degree by exploiting the psychic energies of torture victims and sacrificial victims, too. Only someone who had killed in the cause could become a red initiate.

    Of course we have seen this form of black magic before - in the pyramid culture of south America. In the secret history Lenin is a reincarnation of a high priest, born again in order to oppose the second coming of the Sun God, and when Trotsky was on the run from his old comrades, hiding in Mexico City, he was returning home.

    The image of Lenin, the mummified incarnation of an initiate of the pyramids is both resonant and alittle absurd to modern sensibility. Ironically, perhaps, this image seems to encapsulate the very spirit of Modernism, mixing the iconic with the off beat, of the cheap, banal even tackily up to date with ancient, occult wisdom.'

    This book, 'The Secret History of the World,' by Johnathan Black is a history of the evolution of human consciousness and the effects of this by the Secret organizations, occultic, esoteric, whatever you might choose to call it.

    The point I am making is that human consciousness is affected by organizations that hold occultic / secret / esoteric beliefs or knowledge and the belief that 1914 is an apocalyptic / event in the evolution of human consciousness is held by many obscure organizations.

    Could this have influence Russell? Maybe if he was both influenced by the Millerites, and Great Disappointment and the beliefs that Apocalyptic changes were imminent in and on the Earth that were held by many who knew the true origins of the Christian beliefs and its origins with the Egyptian Resurrection Cults.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    'The point I am making is that human consciousness is affected by organizations that hold occultic / secret / esoteric beliefs or knowledge'

    Can you name them and outline their beliefs?

    'and the belief that 1914 is an apocalyptic / event in the evolution of human consciousness is held by many obscure organizations.'

    Can you list them?

    'many who knew the true origins of the Christian beliefs and its origins with the Egyptian Resurrection Cults.'

    Can you please list those egyptian resurrection cults, and then show their connection w the origins of christianity. Please do everything in your own words. No pasting.

    S

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Ps, i accept that russel was influenced by the popular ecoteric trends of his day. But, he only skimmed the dross off the top. He did not understand much, if any of the deeper things. It was not necesary for him to be a mason to get that. It has never been proven that he was a mason.

    S

  • Beta Male
    Beta Male

    rasputin died two years after the duke. more conspiracy garbage playing loose with the facts. just one fact wrong ruins the credibility of the entire article

  • minimus
    minimus

    I like a thread that expresses accuracy. I don't believe the title here is quite factual.

  • Gill
    Gill

    Rasputin - An attempt, and almost successful attempt to assassinate Rasputin was made on June 28th 1914. He did not die or was not assassinated sucessfully until two years later.

    Minimus - absolutely right and my apologies. The thread should be looking at the significance of these dates to societies that hold power over people and Revolution took control of certain parts of the globe on dates of 1789 (French Revolution) and the first world war of 1914. These dates are viewed as significant in human consciousness and the development thereof. In 1789, human consciousness decided, in France, that 'We will take no more' and 'We /they' decided to cause upheaval.

    In 1914, for what ever reasons caused the tinderbox of human consciousness to explode and ignite the world, this is what happened. Since then, the feudal systems of the past and the real control of the class systems were over turned. But the strings of human consciousness are still being pulled constantly even down to the mind numbind sensations of advertising.

    Satanus - I will get back to your point after a bit more research......probably tomorrow.

    I have found a very old book, 1874 on 'Secret Societies of all Ages and Countries', by Charles William Heckethorn.

    In it I found a very prophetic statement from a very inciteful author - See what you think and bear in mind that this was written in 1874:

    'Secret societyies, religious and political, are again springing up on many sides: the religious may be dismissed without comment, as they are generally without any novelty or significance, but those that have political objects out not to be disregarded as without importance. The International, Fenians, Communists, Nihilists, Wahabees, are secretly aiming at the overthrow of existing governments and the present order of things. The murders of Englishmen perpetrated by native Indians point to the machinations of the secret societies in British India. Before the outbreak of the great Indian mutiny English newspaper correspondents spoke rather contemptuously of some religious ceremony observed throughout British India of carrying small loaves from village to village, but this ceremony was the summons to the people to prepare for the general rising; hence the proceedings of the natives should be closely watched.'

    November 1874

    When it comes to organizations such as the WTBTS you can only begin to wonder, as many who have left the bOrg have done, what is the purpose of this organization and why would any government permit such control of its people. But then, you look at the results of the kind of control that the WTBTS exherts and you realise that it has control of millions of people who cause no trouble at all for their governments, will be satisfied with the most insignificant work and wages, will not think to often and too deeply or in any way cause revolution and they have produced for their respective countries, mindless drones.

    The WTBTS has teachings that are in effect no different to any other religion. They are simply a means of control.

    Any historian worth his salt will know the real origins of Christian, Muslim, etc teachings and that these teachings are all a fantastic embroidery and embellishment of the real history of the human race and simply a means to attain one thing and one thing only.......CONTROL!

    In the end, Control is all that these organizations are about and the real history of the world is absolutely nothing to do with the crapulous teachings of our history books and our so called 'spiritual leaders'.

  • Reslight
    Reslight

    Anyone familiar with Russell's works should know beyond a shadow of doubt that Russell was not a member of the Free Masons organization. The whole idea is laughable. Why would Russell spend practically all of his hours sabotaging what he allegely believed in?

    Some quotes from Russell: Watch Tower June 15, 1895
    R1827 : page 143

    In our judgment the majority of "secret societies" are merely beneficiary and have no secret schemes antagonistic to the general public welfare, the secret rites and ceremonies being merely "boys' play," occupying the time and attention of persons who have no greater aims than those which pertain to the present life. We note, however, that several Roman Catholic Societies seem to have schemes connected with the use of fire-arms, and are therefore to be classed as malevolent rather than benevolent.

    We note also that the Order of Free Masons, if judged by its past history, has some secret object or scheme, more than fraternity and financial aid in time of sickness or death. And, so far as we can judge, there is a certain amount of profane worship or mummery connected with the rites of this order and some others, which the members do not comprehend, but which, in many cases, serves to satisfy the cravings of the natural mind for worship, and thus hinders it from seeking the worship of God in spirit and in truth--through Christ, the only appointed Mediator and Grand Master.

    In proportion as such societies consume valuable time in foolish, senseless rites and ceremonies, and in substituting the worship of their officers, and the use of words and symbols which have no meaning to them, for the worship of God, in his appointed way -- through Christ, and according to knowledge and the spirit of a sound mind -- in that proportion these societies are grievous evils, regardless of the financial gains or losses connected with membership in them.



    The New Creation, pages 580, 581:

    This brings before us the whole question of orders, societies, etc., and what privileges the New Creation has in connection with such organizations. Is it right for them to be members of these societies? We answer that while Church associations are purely religious, and labor and beneficial organizations in general are purely secular, there are still other orders which combine the religious and the secular features. As we understand the matter, for instance, the Free Masons, Odd Fellows, Knights of Pythias, etc., perform certain rites and ceremonies of a religious kind. Let it be understood that we are not waging any warfare upon those who hold membership in these various orders, even as we are not waging warfare against the various sectarian religious systems. We place upon one level all of those which have any religious ceremonies, teachings, etc., and consider them all as parts of Babylon, some quarters or wards of which are cleaner, and others less clean, but all, nevertheless, full of confusion, error--contrary to the divine intention, as displayed in the organization of the primitive Church and the instructions, by word and example, given to it by the inspired Founder, and his twelve apostles.

    We admonish the New Creation to have nothing whatever to do with any of these semi-religious societies, clubs, orders, churches; but to "Come out from amongst them, and be ye separate, and touch not the unclean thing." (2 Cor. 6:17) Their things, their worship, their teachings, their doctrines, are unclean to us, though they may not be unclean to themselves. The eyes of our understanding have been opened, and now to us all things appear in a new light, so that things which we once loved now we hate, and things which we once hated now we love.



    What Pastor Russell Said
    Question 317:2 (1910)

    I am not judging at all, I am merely saying, so far as I can tell. But my understanding is, that all of these are bundles, and each bundle is getting tighter. Some of you know a great deal more about Freemasonry than I do, and I am not here to say anything against it, because I do not know anything to say, and I do not know as I would say it if I did know it. The Lord did not send me to preach against Masonry or Odd Fellowship, nor against Presbyterianism or Methodism. Our opportunity is to tell the truth, to preach the true gospel of Christ, and the Lord says that this message is to have its effects on the different hearts. Now, if you find yourself in any kind of a bundle, you know that is not the program so far as the wheat is concerned. The wheat is to he gathered into the garner; it is not to be put into bundles in the present life. The wheat is to be free. If you find yourself in any kind of a bundle, better get out of the bundle. Trust in the Lord, and be in harmony with Him, and this will take you out of all kinds of bundles and human organizations, I believe.

    I should, perhaps, say a cautionary word here to the effect that I would understand this would mean, for instance, that if I were a carpenter I would prefer to be at liberty, but if it were demanded of me that I should join a union before I could have work, and that I must pay so much of my money into that union's coffers, I should join. I should understand that I was making so much of a contribution to the general weal of the carpenters, and I would have no hesitation in the matter, because there is nothing of a religious kind there. There is nothing that would fetter my heart or mind. But if that organization should do anything I could not approve, I would feel perfectly free to withdraw at any time. So I would make that limitation. But, so far as wheat and tares are concerned, I think there are plenty of bundles all around you, and I notice, too, that these different worldly organizations, if we may so call them in contradistinction to church organizations, are also taking the same methods the church people are taking. It used to be very easy to withdraw from one of the churches and you could say, "I will thank you for a letter," and then they would take the letter and never deposit it, but burn it up, if they desired. And so with the Masons; they had a method by which anyone desiring to leave the order could ask for a demit and he would get that without any particular question. I have been informed that now this is changed somewhat. If you are a Presbyterian, and you wish a letter, they say, "To which church do you wish the letter addressed?" You say, "Oh, just make it out anyway." "Oh we do not do that now; we will give you a letter to a certain, particular church and it is to he deposited there--good when deposited there." And so I am informed that our Freemason friends are doing the same thing; they do not give demits now. If you wish to be transferred to another lodge they will transfer you, but they do not give demits now in the same way they formerly did.

    A Brother: Brother Russell, I am a Mason and, unfortunately, hold a high position in the order, and I would like to make a little correction on that. A Mason is perfectly free to leave when he feels so disposed. No restraint whatever is placed upon him.

    Brother Russell: I told you in the beginning that I did not know about it myself; I was only relating what a brother told me.

    Another Brother: I was a Mason in a different jurisdiction from that of the brother. It may he all right in his particular jurisdiction, but it is not the same in other jurisdictions, as I know.

    Brother Russell: You will notice that we never have anything to say against any of these. We have not said an unkind word about Freemasonry, and you never read anything unkind that we have ever said about it, and I do not wish to say anything unkind about Presbyterianism, or Methodism. I think that many of the dear friends in these denominations are good people, and I appreciate their characters. What I talk about sometimes is Presbyterian doctrine, and they talk about it, too. And I have read things they have said about Presbyterian doctrines far harder than anything I have ever said. I sometimes quote in the Watch Tower some things Presbyterians say about their own doctrine, and I occasionally quote in the Watch Tower something the Methodists say about their doctrine, because they say it stronger than I should wish to say it.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit