Shunning Or Refusing Blood - Which Is Worse? (page 3)

Simon

Fred... prove to me from the bible that blood should not be used in medical treatment.

Hillary -- I still don't get it. (Which isn't to say that there isn't something to get.) Both exclusion of blood and exclusion of association can be imposed by parents on children. The consequences are quite different, but any issues of will and self-determination seem identical in both cases.

Englishman

HS, Thank you for reiterating my view point so succinctly.

As you say, the blood refusal is a personal issue. Being shunned is something that is unilaterally forced upon a person, ie, he/she has no choice in the matter.

The blood issue is, IMO, sometimes a red herring. It's very emotionalism makes it newsworthy, but it also over-rides the real issues that most of us have to face which is loss of our loved ones through shunning. The blood issue can hide the real problem sometimes.

I bet most of us here have lost more loved ones through shunning than through death due to no blood.

Englishman.

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....

Si

Just a word on shunning.
I too believe this to be unchristian and evidence of introspective behaviour. However, the JW's do not have this on their own. Whole societies subscribe to this form of behaviour. Take Japan (and other Asian cultures) for example. Group dynamics are of the utmost importance and where there is dissention, the group withdraws from the 'marked' individual. This may happen within a specific group situation or family, should a member break with the established code or tradition (eg marry a foreigner). Within such cultures there are long established and very strong forces which work to maintain the status quo and a deviation is often addressed through a process of 'shunning'. Rules which inform the status quo are also those of self interest and exist within a particular mindset that does not take into consideration alternative forms of behaviour. They exist simply to disallow change and encourage conformity. I have mentioned Japan as an example only, this situation is in evidence in many traditional cultures and certainly Asian ones. My point? This is an aspect of human behaviour found in many places other than within the JW organisation. Its negative, counterproductive, but it exists as a defence mechanism to change and a means of keeping the comfort zone intact(not to mention power).

Andee

I suppose what ones life experience and perspective is would determine which practice is more repulsive. I am of the opinion that both are equally disgusting. Period.

I have "indirectly" been shunned. That being, my Mother and Aunt were shunned by siblings and as a result I was shunned right along with them. The years of agonizing pain I had to witness as a result of that shunning still infuriates me.

My child has also needed blood transfusions. There was no question in my mind that she would have them. I had been long gone from the Org.

As far as blood. Grout you posted:

Both the exclusion of blood and exclusion of association can still be imposed by parents on children

That is not true with the case of blood. A JW parent can refuse blood for their child, but most likely, the Dr. or hospital involved will file for a emergency court order to override the decision of the parents. A blood transfusion will then given.

As for adults, they can make their own decisions.

Andee

Englishman

I know that when people die through lack of blood, a short term hue and cry will ensue, normally via the media. But, JW's actually benefit from this, because it (a) binds them together against 'the World', but more importantly, (b)it gives them an 'in' when witnessing, especially to work colleagues. They have a wonderful opportunity to pull out their Bible and misquote a few no blood Scriptures, shake their heads regretfully and mutter something about having to obey Jehovah even unto death. It will repel many listeners, but, some are impressed by this so called show of faith.

Now compare that with telling a 'Worldling' that you have disowned your parents because they no longer share your beliefs. Or that you refuse to speak to your daughter because she lives with her boyfriend.
Or that a Mother will not be allowed to attend her sons wedding because she has been disfellowshipped.

There is no 'Sainthood factor' to shunning in the same way as there IS with blood refusal, because, and this is the main point - unless you are acting for a child, YOU are choosing whether or not to have blood. When you are being shunned, others are making choices for you, shunning is a unilateral imposition, blood refusal is a personal choice that may well lead to shunning further down the line.

Some non-dubs are just a teeny weeny bit impressed at JW's stance on blood, if only because it appears to demonstrate their utter conviction. I bet you very few non-dubs are unaware of shunning, and when you do make them aware - which I do, most volubly - they are absolutely astonished and appalled.

We need to make non-dubs as aware of the shunning policy as they are aware of the blood issue. I guarantee that if folk were told about shunning when they first started to show an interest in dubbism, their interest would fade much more quickly.

Englishman.

Now compare that - again I use the word 'Martyr factor' -

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....

Andee

Hi Englishman,

I know when I share with friends (all non-witnesses) about the JW stand, or constantly shifting stand on blood, I get some interest, but never the stunned reaction when I share my families experience with shunning.

I think that if the WT is to be exposed for the cruel and vicious corporation that they are, shunning is the subject that ought to be exposed to the world.

Andee

Englishman

I've just read through Blue Sapphires thread @ http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=15116&site=3

Now this shows the crunch point with the shunning policy. Can't believe it's taken me so long to get to what is the most important difference between the issue of blood refusal and the issue about shunning, which is:

JEHOVAHS WITNESSES ARE SECRETLY ASHAMED OF THEIR SHUNNING POLICY

Englishman.

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....

Shunning Or Refusing Blood - Which Is Worse?

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