Revelation Jan 07-08 Week in review

by still_in74 15 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • still_in74
    still_in74

    Sorry for the text format, I have this all in HTML with all kinds of formatting for emphasis but it keeps coming up Error when i try to submit.

    Chapter 29


    Singing the Triumphal New Song


    Week of Jan 7-08 In Review


    Vision 9—Revelation 14:1-11


    Subject: The 144,000 are with the Lamb on Mount Zion; angelic pronouncements sound through the earth; harvests are reaped


    Time of fulfillment: 1914 to the great tribulation


    1 - Not important


    2 John, and with him the John class today, is given a preview of that happy outcome: “And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.” (Revelation 14:1) As we have seen, this Lamb is the same as the Michael who cleansed the heavens by casting out the Devil and his demons. He is the Michael whom Daniel describes as “standing in behalf of the sons of [God’s] people” as he prepares to “stand up” in executing Jehovah’s righteous judgments. (Daniel 12:1; Revelation 12:7, 9) Since 1914 this self-sacrificing Lamb of God has been standing on Mount Zion as the Messianic King.

    3 Not important


    4 John sees not only Jesus but the complete body of the 144,000 fellow heirs of the heavenly Kingdom standing upon the Mount Zion. At the time represented by the vision, many, but not all, of the 144,000 are already in heaven. Later in the same vision, John learns that some of the holy ones still have to endure and die faithful. (Revelation 14:12, 13) Evidently, then, some of the 144,000 are still on earth.


    So how is it that John sees all of them standing with Jesus on Mount Zion? In that, as members of the congregation of anointed Christians, these have now “approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem.” (Hebrews 12:22)

    Like Paul when he was still on earth, they have already—in a spiritual sense—been raised up to be in union with Christ Jesus in heavenly places. (WHAT???)(Ephesians 2:5, 6) Additionally, in 1919 they responded to the invitation, “Come on up here,” and in a figurative way “went up into heaven in the cloud.” (Revelation 11:12) In view of these scriptures, we can see that all the 144,000—spiritually speaking—are located on Mount Zion with Jesus Christ.


    ----------------- WHY IS EVERYTHING FIGURATIVE?? WHY IS EVERYTHING SUCH A STRETCH TO MAKE THIS WORK?? AS OF NOW THE 144000 ARENT EVEN SEALED... YET THEY WERE ALL THERE IN 1919???

    5 The 144,000 have no part with the worshippers of the wild beast, who are marked with the symbolic number 666. (Revelation 13:15-18) In contrast, these loyal ones have the name of God and of the Lamb written on their foreheads. (BUT THEY ARE ONLY THERE FIGURATIVELY AND HAVE NOT ALL BEEN SEALED YET) No doubt John, a Jew, saw God’s name in Hebrew lettering, ????. In having the name of Jesus’ Father symbolically written on their foreheads, these sealed ones (BUT THEY ARE NOT SEALED YET) make known to all that they are Jehovah’s witnesses, His slaves. (Revelation 3:12) Their having Jesus’ name also displayed on their foreheads indicates that they acknowledge being owned by him. He is their betrothed “husband,” and they are his prospective “bride,” “a new creationserving God with heavenly life in view. (THIS IS WHERE THEY COMPOUND THE REASONING THAT THEY ARE STILL ON EARTH AND NOT IN HEAVEN YET BUT ARE FIGURATIVELY IN HEAVEN) (Ephesians 5:22-24; Revelation 21:2, 9; 2 Corinthians 5:17) Their intimate relationship with Jehovah and Jesus Christ affects all their thoughts and actions.


    Singing as if a New Song


    6 In harmony with this, John reports: “And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; (THEY ARE SINGING BEFORE THEMSELVES??? - REMEMBER THE 144K ARE ALSO THE ELDERS) and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.” (Revelation 14:2, 3) It is no wonder that John, upon hearing 144,000 voices joined in one melodious chorus, is reminded of roaring waterfalls and pealing thunderclaps. How pleasant that clear harplike accompaniment! (Psalm 81:2) What choir on earth could ever attain to the grandeur of that magnificent chorus?


    7 And what is this “new song”? As we noted in discussing Revelation 5:9, 10, the song has to do with Jehovah’s Kingdom purposes and his wonderful provision, through Jesus Christ, for making spiritual Israel “a kingdom and priests to our God.” It is a song of praise to Jehovah publicizing the new things he is accomplishing by means of the Israel of God and in behalf of it. (Galatians 6:16) Members of this spiritual Israel respond to the psalmist’s invitation: “Praise Jah, you people! Sing to Jehovah a new song, his praise in the congregation of loyal ones. Let Israel rejoice in its grand Maker, the sons of Zion—let them be joyful in their King.” (Psalm 149:1, 2) True, those words were written centuries ago, but in our day, they have been sung with new understanding. In 1914 the Messianic Kingdom was born. (Revelation 12:10) In 1919 Jehovah’s people on earth began to announce “the word of the kingdom” with renewed zeal. (Matthew 13:19) Stimulated by the yeartext for 1919 (Isaiah 54:17) and encouraged by their restoration to a spiritual paradise, they began in that year to ‘sing to Jehovah with music in their hearts.’—Ephesians 5:19.


    8 Why is it, though, that only the 144,000 are able to learn the song mentioned at Revelation 14:3? Because it has to do with their experiences as chosen heirs of God’s Kingdom. They alone are adopted as sons of God and anointed with holy spirit. They alone are bought from the earth to become part of that heavenly Kingdom, and they alone “will be priests . . . and will rule as kings” with Jesus Christ for a thousand years to bring mankind to perfection. They alone are seen to be “singing as if a new song” in the very presence of Jehovah. These unique experiences and prospects give them a singular appreciation of the Kingdom and enable them to sing about it in a way that no one else can.—Revelation 20:6; Colossians 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:11, 12.


    9 Nevertheless, others listen and respond to their singing. Since 1935 a growing great crowd of other sheep has heard their triumphant song and been moved to join with them in publicizing God’s Kingdom. (John 10:16; Revelation 7:9) True, these newcomers cannot learn to sing exactly the same new song that the future rulers of God’s Kingdom sing. (THEY MUST BE FUTURE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT SEALED YET EVEN THOUGH JOHNS VISION SHOWS THEM STANDING WITH JESUS IN 1919) But they too sound a melodious chorus of praise to Jehovah that is an anthem lauding Jehovah for the new things he is accomplishing. They thus fulfill the psalmist’s exhortation: “Sing to Jehovah a new song. Sing to Jehovah, all you people of the earth. Sing to Jehovah, bless his name. From day to day tell the good news of salvation by him. Declare among the nations his glory, among all the peoples his wonderful works. Ascribe to Jehovah, O you families of the peoples, ascribe to Jehovah glory and strength. Say among the nations: ‘Jehovah himself has become king.’”—Psalm 96:1-3, 7, 10; 98:1-9.


    10 How can the 144,000 sing “before” the elders, since the 24 elders are the 144,000 in their glorious heavenly position? Early in the Lord’s day, those “dead in union with Christ” were resurrected as spirit creatures. Thus, faithful anointed Christians who have conquered are now in heaven, symbolically fulfilling functions comparable to those of 24 divisions of priestly elders. (OF COURSE! THEY ARE SYMBOLICALLY THERE!!!! ) They are included in the vision of Jehovah’s heavenly organization. (1 Thessalonians 4:15, 16; 1 Chronicles 24:1-18; Revelation 4:4; 6:11) The remnant of the 144,000 still on earth are therefore singing the new song before, or in the sight of, their resurrected brothers in heaven.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    THIS IS WHERE I JUST SAT THERE STUNNED... THE REALIZATION THAT THIS SCRIPTURE HAD BEEN TWISTED TO THE POINT OF COMPLETE NON-RECOGNITION.

    JOHN SAID
    - And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.” (Revelation 14:1) AND And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.” (Revelation 14:2, 3)


    YET WE ARE TO BELIEVE THATTHE 144K WERE NOT REALLY THERE, BUT THERE FIGURATIVELY IN THAT THEY WERE DEFINITELY GOING TO BE THERE IN A HUNDRED YEARS OR MORE. PLUS, THEY ARENT REALLY ALL SINGING THE SONG IN HEAVEN BUTSOME OF THEM ARE ON EARTH, SOME IN HEAVEN, SOME POSSIBLY NOT EVEN BORN YET,BUT THESE ARE OR WILL EVENTUALLY SING ON EARTH WITH AHEAVENLY LIFE IN VIEWSO...


    THEREFORE THEY ARE SYMBOLICALLY ALREADY IN HEAVEN WITH JESUS SINGING BEFORE THEMSELVES (THE ELDERS) EVENTHOUGH THEY ARENT THERE YET !!!! ???

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    11 At this point we might also ask: Why is it that these anointed overcomers are referred to as the symbolic 24 elders as well as the 144,000? It is because Revelation views this one group from two different standpoints. The 24 elders are always shown in their ultimate position around Jehovah’s throne, installed as kings and priests in the heavens. They symbolize the entire group of 144,000 in their heavenly position, although at present a small remnant of these is still on earth. (Revelation 4:4, 10; 5:5-14; 7:11-13; 11:16-18) Revelation chapter 7, however, focuses on the 144,000 as brought forth from humankind, and it stresses Jehovah’s grand purpose to seal the complete number of individual spiritual Israelites and to grant salvation to an unnumbered great crowd. Revelation chapter 14 provides a picture confirming that the complete Kingdom class of 144,000 individual overcomers will be assembled with the Lamb on Mount Zion. The qualifications to be met in order to be numbered with the 144,000 are also made known, as we shall now see.


    UNBELIEVABLE!! WE MIGHT ASK WHY THE 144K AND THE ELDERS ARE THE SAME?


    WE MIGHT ASK HOW IS IT THE WTS KNOWS WHAT IS AND IS NOT FIGURATIVE, SYMBOLIC, FUTURE, PAST OR PRESENT?


    WE MIGHT ASK HOW SOON IT WILL BE BEFORE THIS ALL FALLS APART AND GETS CHANGED AGAIN?

  • wifekeepsmeinit
    wifekeepsmeinit
    THIS IS WHERE I JUST SAT THERE STUNNED... THE REALIZATION THAT THIS SCRIPTURE HAD BEEN TWISTED TO THE POINT OF COMPLETE NON-RECOGNITION.
    YET WE ARE TO BELIEVE THAT THE 144K WERE NOT REALLY THERE, BUT THERE FIGURATIVELY IN THAT THEY WERE DEFINITELY GOING TO BE THERE IN A HUNDRED YEARS OR MORE . PLUS , THEY ARENT REALLY ALL SINGING THE SONG IN HEAVEN BUT SOME OF THEM ARE ON EARTH, SOME IN HEAVEN, SOME POSSIBLY NOT EVEN BORN YET, BUT THESE ARE OR WILL EVENTUALLY SING ON EARTH WITH A HEAVENLY LIFE IN VIEW SO...


    THEREFORE THEY ARE SYMBOLICALLY ALREADY IN HEAVEN WITH JESUS SINGING BEFORE THEMSELVES (THE ELDERS) EVENTHOUGH THEY ARENT THERE YET !!!! ???

    Finally, its all starting to make sense now. I didnt study or read ahead of time for last nights book study, but I can remember just sitting there thinking to myself "what the heck is this book saying" I didnt have a clue. Afterwords during the car ride home, my wife turns to me and says "You don't understand a word of what was said tonight do you?".....I said "Nope sorry dear, mabey since I've missed the last few book studies, mabey I should just not go at all until the book is done" ........No dice...I guess I'll have to start working late on Tuesday nights again.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    As you demonstrate, this is not a piece of biblical exegesis, i.e. explaining what the text says. The Society is not interested in that. They are only interested in the text insofar as it can serve as a vehicle for reinterpreting their own organizational history in a way that reinforces their claimed authority. It is a piece of eisegesis, i.e. reading extraneous and foreign notions into the text and accommodating the text to these notions if the fit is not very good.

  • nomoreguilt
    nomoreguilt

    wifekeepsinit...........You poor, poor , man. My ex. eventually gave up on me....WHEW! Thank you..hang in there friend, just don't let her KEEP guilting you back in to the mess. I know from expierence friend...

    NMG

  • SirNose586
    SirNose586

    Confusing sh** ain't it? And people wonder why I drift into the bookstudy when it's half over and snooze through the rest of it.

    Thanks for destroying the study, still_in...

  • still_in74
    still_in74

    wifekeepsmeinit.........

    welcome to the board. For the record, your user name could be my user name. I love my wife very much, and she is the ONLY reason I am "still_in".

    There are many of us here in your position, Freeme comes to mind - identical position as us both. Use this board for strength and to keep your sanity. Some days I explode on here to vent as there is no where else for me to do it.

    I look forward to your posts,

    BTW - my Revelation BS is Thursday so I will do a review for this week - next week, that is if I'm not working late on Thursday

  • Bonnie_Clyde
    Bonnie_Clyde
    Afterwords during the car ride home, my wife turns to me and says "You don't understand a word of what was said tonight do you?".....

    Did you ask your wife to explain it to you?

  • nomoreguilt
    nomoreguilt

    I got to thinking about this later. Are you married to my EX-WIFE????

    Sounded just like her.

    Hi Bonnie!

    NMG

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore
    Afterwords during the car ride home, my wife turns to me and says "You don't understand a word of what was said tonight do you?"

    It's not the parts that I don't understand that I have issues with.

    It's the parts that I DO understand. Yes I understand, and that's the problem.

  • bobld
    bobld

    still_in74 unbelievible the crap the wbts puts out.The more I read their literature the more I get poff.Their history just stinks.I suppose to the r&f this is really holy spirit revealling stuff.

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