JWs who date or marry non-JWs are taught how to avoid reality

by Lady Lee 11 Replies latest watchtower medical

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  Lady Lee

  This board has seen dozens of threads from people who have gotten involved with a JW/lapsed JWs. Most have no idea what being a JW means. Many don't even discover the JW connection until they are quite involved.

  Here is what I see happening:

  A JW decides to investigate what life is like outside the WT. They get involved in a relationship with a non-JW. In most cases they don't tell their new friend about their JW past. At some point the lapsed JW starts feeling the guilt and wants to go back to the fold. Some will begin to explain the past and may even try to get their new interest to study with the JWs, go to a few meetings but not explain to family and other JWs the extent of the real relatiohship.

  To me this parallels how JWs are taught to "preach" to people at their doors. No full disclosure at the door. In fact they will even lie. "No we aren't here to convert you" "You will understand this later" "No we don't shun people" You know the drill

  If at the doors we said "we have a religion we would like you to join. You will have to give up all your present beliefs in favor of ours. You will have to give up all holidays and family that goes to them. You will have to give up any family that objects to your association. If you or your child needs a blood transfusion you will have to say No." In the same way, the lapsed JW wouldn't dream of telling the new person in their life "I used to belong to the JWs. I want to go back and would like you to join. (then add the above paragraph)". Also tell them: If you refuse to become a JW with me then know ahead of time you will always be considered an outsider. Any children we have will be taught only what the JWs teach. Our children will not be allowed to attend college or university. They will not be allowed to get involved in the arts, or sports. Their extra time will be spent studying JW literature, going to meetings and participating in the preaching work. Any beliefs you have will always come second to what I believe. Also know that I will always put my beliefs first, over your beliefs. I will attend all my meetings which will be more important than anything you want to do."

  What a terrible thing to do to someone who you say you love.

  Hopefully some UBMs will post how this may or may not fit in with their experience.
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  Abandoned

  What a terrible thing to do to someone who you say you love.

  I believe this is the primary reason that my first marriage broke up. I can still visualize the actual conversations we had. I can still remember the look on her face when I explained to her how what I was learning was more important to me than she was.

  In doing so, I thought I was honoring God. The whole thing just makes me sick. I hope I see her one day just to apologize for what an A$$ I was.
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  dinah

  That's sad abandoned.

  You didn't know any better at that point, don't beat yourself. Might be nice to apologize though.
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  Burger Time

  Yea that usually happens. I was dating a girl who actually studied with my Mom just to appease her. I kept telling her not to do it, and she was like, "I like what I am learning". I was shocked. I think it's half and half that way. Many boyfriends/girlfriends of a DF'd or returning member will go along just to make things easier. That's where the problem seems to lie, just like with anything in a relationship if your not 100% vested you will grow to slowly regret it. When I dated that girl, it amazed me to what lengths people will go if they think they are in love. Oh I should add when I dated her I had no thoughts at all of going back, but as I said she just wanted to appease my Mom.
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  carla

  The fact that the wt/jw's encourage lying to a spouse and the spouse cannot see that this should be a huge red flag is mind boggling. In my case they outright told him to lie to me, all in the name of God? The hell a ubm goes through while trying to reason, fight, play nice, you name it I've tried all of them, to one day it hits you that you and your children will never again be first in their life is a profound life altering moment. That day it really sinks in and you must figure a way to go on knowing that if it came down to it your spouse would be at the side of a jw before you or a family member in a time of need is depressing to say the least. To know that on one hand they somehow believe that through them, you will be spared at the big A, it's reallly just the rest of the world that deserves eternal destruction or whatever crazy way they try to justify jw doctrine that day, I can only shake my head at the insanity.

  As for kids? There is no way my kids would be lost to this cult, ever, it would literally be over my dead body. And even then I have people in place to make sure they will know that this is not just some 'quirky little church' but a dangerous and deadly cult. I see no reason not to warn children of the dangers of this cult. Their own writings substantiate the destructive nature of the cult to well being and family relationships.
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  WTWizard

  That is one benefit of fully integrated honesty (which is more important than truth itself). If someone was fully honest, they would tell a potential partner that they are/were a witless. Telling them the whole story with fully integrated honesty would prevent a lot of problems and prepare the partner for those that are certain to develop. It would give the suitor a chance to size up the situation, including the chances of getting dragged into the cult and the chance of having the lapsed witless becoming totally apostate or totally back in.

  The problem is, once a witless begins using fully integrated honesty, lapsed or not, there is a pretty good chance that the witless is soon going to become apostate.
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  M.J.

  Are you talking about me? ;)
  
  Don't forget that that "something" which shocks them back into the JWs is usually a first child.
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  dinah

  I had been df'd for about 7 years when I married my husband. He knew that was how I was raised and he said "That's okay, just don't EVER preach at ME" Well, at one point I had one of those Big A panic attacks and wanted to go back. He hit the roof, I thought that was just Satan trying to keep me from returning.

  God, I was such an idiot!!!!! Anyhoo, I couldn't quit smoking, and when at the meetings I noticed they NEVER spoke of Christ without having the GB in the same paragraph. It made me uneasy and I quit attending. Being out for a long period of time can bring some clarity.
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  Mrs. Witness

  Lady Lee, you hit it on the head. If you read my first post, you'll see that what you said is my life in a nutshell.

  The first shock that sent him back was marriage...it didn't stick (mostly I think because he couldn't quit smoking).

  The second shock that sent him back for good was our beautiful baby girl. This time he quit smoking (because I had quit before I got pregnant so he didn't have it around) and he's been super dub ever since.

  I threatened him with divorce because he was trying to indoctrinate my older daughter by having 1/2 hour sessions with her on Sundays (he was reading the "My Book of..." with her) and he told me that he wanted to take our little one to meetings. After I told him to get out, the 1/2 hour sessions stopped (his reported hours must have plunged...) and he has made no more metion of taking our baby to meetings. After I told him I wanted a divorce, he refused to leave...after all, "Jehovah hates a divorcing". I don't know whether he won't leave because he'd look bad in the congregation or because he couldn't get remarried because there was no adultery (unless you count the fact that he's having an affair with an organization).

  Now I am just existing in our marriage. I try every once in awhile to throw something out to him so he can see the light, but I fear he's too far gone. His mom became a JW after her hubby left her when my JW was only 7 or so. She had three kids (7, 6 and newborn) and they jumped on her. So, he's about as bad as a born-in JW as far as social skills and education. I have tried to reason with him, fight with him, shock him (the pedophilia cases). Nothing works. He just goes blank. I actually think that his involvement with the WTBTS has caused him some mental illness. It amazes me how fast he can get mad then turn it off on a dime.

  And that's all I have to say about that...
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  Lady Lee

  That is so sad Abandoned.

  Burger Time What an interesting twist. I wonder if she could feel something was missing and thought by knowing more about your (supposed) beliefs it would fill the gap.

  Carla Theocratic Strategy gives them permission to use lies, half-truths and anything else to get what they want. To get to the point where you see yourself on opposites sides of a war that you can rarly win has to be devastating. Hauling out the parental instinct to protect the young must be done early otherwise the children canm be lost. And JWs will not even respect court ordres that prohibit them from indoctrinating the children.

  WTWizard "fully integrated honesty" is definitely the best course. But few JWs will accept discussions on that level. It sets up a cognitive distortion that is able to accept both without seeing the contradictions. I think one has to feel a discontent with the religion and its authority before they can begin to see the contradictions.

  M.J. a child - yup. Any important life change is able to send them home to mother WT. The relationship itself can trigger the flight especially when the talk of marriage enters the fray. Introductions to parents, the type of wedding, and all the expectations that everything wil be heavily weighted on the side of JWs. Children, death of a family member can also send them scurrying back.

  Dinah Good for you for seeing behind the curtain.

  Mrs Witness

  The first shock that sent him back was marriage. . . The second shock that sent him back for good was our beautiful baby girl.

  I'm not surprised. Two life altering events that would trigger the fears of the big A would send many people running back. From the bit you posted here I see you understand this quite well.

  I don't know whether he won't leave because he'd look bad in the congregation or because he couldn't get remarried because there was no adultery

  That sounds so sad. Again you and the children are put second before the affair with the WTS

  He just goes blank.

  This is a crucial key for you. Look at his eyes when he goes blank. When he is in that state it is totally useless to discuss anything with him. He is into what the org calls "New Personality".

  The WTS teaches people on an intellectual level - (not to be confused with actual intelligence). But it is an unemotional indoctrination. In my opinion, one of the better ways to get past the "blank" part of him is to keep discussions on a more emotional focus. Few JWs have the tools to deal with this so you might have more success connecting with him.

  I actually think that his involvement with the WTBTS has caused him some mental illness. It amazes me how fast he can get mad then turn it off on a dime.

  That "New Personality" strikes again. After a bit of practice you should see the switching for what it is.