by RULES & REGULATIONS 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
But lets not down play the coercive tactics implemented by the main instigators of this religion
They were the ones who exploited the belief in the bible and manipulated its contents to achieve their own means and agenda / ie. literature sales
and their own derived power.
In a practical sense creating a flock of slaves and then exploiting them.
They were the ones who exploited the belief in the bible and manipulated its contents to achieve their own means and agenda / ie. literature sales
True, and at the same time, we were able to come to our own conclusions, as scary as that process was for many of us. In other words, their methods did not turn us into unthinking robots. In fact, it was often when we were subjected to these subtle and not-so-subtle methods that our first persistent doubts emerged. I'd say that the biggest hold the Watchtower has over anyone is not its exploitative methods of indoctrination, but our families and friends still inside (who can potentially hurt by shunning us).
Maybe, but we can all be responsible for its demise, by taking a stand against it.
Absolutely, sweetpea.
But what will it take for the majority of apostates to do this when they still allow themselves to live in fear of the BOE?
Isn't that what it comes down to?
Isn't TRUTH the "precious pearl"?
How can people take a stand against it, as you say? Would it be an individual stand or would there be more power and effect to have an organized walk out or campaign?
What would be the most effective way to take a stand against it?
Raymond Franz shares the responsibility for trying to fix the Watchtower Society. He was in a prime position to do it, if it was fixable. However, they wouldn't let him fix the problems, so his efforts did not succeed. He did mitigate a few problems (he was responsible for mitigating the oral sex ban in 1978). So, what he did represented the best that any one person could have done to repair the organization.
However, everyone that sabotaged his attempts to fix the organization deserve most of the credit for ruining lives. And that is the whole Governing Body aside Raymond Franz. They coerced him into siding with lies, even when he didn't want to. They forced him to stick with the 607 BC date, even if he knew it was 587, because Ray Franz was not a 2/3 majority. They could have listened to Ray, and if they did, the Watchtower Society would be a much better place and much more likely to last into the 22nd century without going belly up. The religion would today be on the borderline of going mainstream, much like the Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists are. But, their pride is now forcing them to hole up, and I predict that they are going to get into so much trouble that they will go belly up.
Unfortunately, they are going to continue ruining lives in the process. Children are now going to be banned from fun (it's a "valueless thing"). Couples are going to be denied first oral sex, then all sex (another "valueless thing"). People are going to be destitute (money is yet another "valueless thing"). And the funny thing is that Raymond Franz would have not listed any of those things as "valueless things". They need to clam up because they are continuing to go from bad to worse, and the mainstream media is catching up to them. Note that Raymond Franz would have probably not tolerated the two-witness rule when it comes to the pedophile issue, though there is no positive proof either way.
What a difference one person could have made. Raymond Franz was trying to go mainstream; everyone else refused. They threw Ray out, and now they are about to have to pay the balloon. Ultimately, those who scoffed Ray's efforts to clean up and fix the organization are the ones that bear the brunt of the blame for ruining lives and forcing people to hole up.
Ultimately, those who scoffed Ray's efforts to clean up and fix the organization are the ones that bear the brunt of the blame for ruining lives and forcing people to hole up.
I agree. So the question of ultimate responsibility for willfully enacting policies that have the potential to ruin lives rests with the Governing Body. I also agree that Ray Franz and many, many others did their absolute best to improve conditions in the organization and got kicked out with the boot in the process.
An earlier poster raised the issue of "taking a stand" against the Watchtower Society which is going beyond this thread which raised the good question in the above subject line. "Taking a stand" against the WS is a valid issue in its own right and may well deserve a new thread.
We are victims of victims, who were once trying to make more victims.
I feel a sense of responsibility for what I did for them, but I don't find it
hard to forgive even a GB member who comes out from under his spell.
the majority of apostates to do this when they still allow themselves to live in fear of the BOE?
Those AREN'T apostates, in the true sense of the word, when it comes to this org.
We do not fear ANY BOE, GB, DO, CO, PO, etc.
Nor do we even allow ourselves to go there.
Yes, many are STILL responsible in keeping this Society running.
Thanks for the topic, again.
sKally
Aren't we all responsible one way or another for the success(6 million strong and counting) of the WTS when we: donated money....got baptized....preached the ''good news''....brought in our family into the organization....signed up for the Ministry School....became Elders,Ministerial Servants?
I've thought about this before. Initially when I was 16 living in a small town where I was well known I worried all the time about bringing reproach on Jehovah's name even though I was df'ed. Now I know that I definitely have ensured more people are informed and will turn dubs away at the door with disgust I say no I've definitely undone anything I initially contributed.
I have no culpability on this one, having never set foot in a KH nor given any money to the org.
What I have done is talk to every JW who showed up at the door, asked some pointed questions, and spent a lot of time talking with them. This was time that they might have used convincing other people that their strange theology makes any sense, so I was using up time that kept someone else from being sucked in to the organization.
So I have cost the WT time and resources, and in return they do not have a convert slaving away for them. Sounds like a good deal, huh?
I'm proud to say that I was a crap witness.
I lied about my time in service. I was always in trouble. I always encouraged others to get into trouble. I got a ton of liturature that I never placed and never paid for. I never donated money (maybe twice) I never asked for donations in service (ever) I hated service, I never had a real study or even a return visit. I messed with lots of sisters (even one in the hall a few times! =) I wasn't a good witness but I was sure as hell a FUN witness!!!!!!
Since I've been out I've been directly responsible for about 6 or 7 people leaving and a TON of people who were studying or interested who will now never go in. So, no, I'm NOT responsible in any way for their "success" such as it is!
