Jehovah's Witnesses more likely to be swindled by quack medicine and conmen

by B_Deserter 22 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Honesty

  Outlaw , you are right, if you ever wanted to start a pyramid scheme just go to the jws.

  After all, the religion started with a quack who went out, measured the inner passage of a pyramid and then prophesied when Jesus was coming.
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  B_Deserter

  Do you feel that Western Medicine is the only valid healing modality?

  Where the medicine comes from is not the point. What makes medicine valid is testing done by independent research. You cannot just take the personal anecdotes of one or even a dozen people and consider the matter to be closed. Time and time gain, anecdotal evidence has proven to be extremely unreliable. Bottom line, we cannot trust human perception to accurately relay the healing effects of any medicine. Heck, we give people sugar pills and they get better from sheer will. What you call Western Medicine I call Scientific Medicine. So, in short, yes, I believe Scientific Medicine is the only valid healing modality. Why do I believe this? Because there is supporting evidence that is peer-reviewed. It is the only medicine that can be verified independently that it works.

  Do you think that it is possible for some so called alternative healing practices to actually have some merit?

  I not only believe it's possible, I believe it's inevitable. But, you cannot convince me that any one specific treatment works from testimonials alone, only from independent peer-reviewed study. I won't say a certain treatment doesn't work without any real testing done on it, but that doesn't mean that it works, either.

  Which ones?

  What about the naturally-occurring substances that have already been proven by modern medicine to be legitimate? Aspirin and Penicillin are among the oldest, most well-documented "natural" medicines available. In fact, you'll be surprised to know that most medicine is made from naturally-occurring ingredients.

  My beef with the natural medicine crowd is that they fall into a trap of faulty logic and bogus claims. They can't explain how their "cures" work, just that they do, and when they make the attempt to explain how, it's always based on faulty assumptions and assertions about the human body that are just...plain...wrong. Take for example, Kevin Trudeau's assertion that if a body is "acid" it will develop cancer but if the body is "alkaline" it can't. First off, that's demonstratably wrong. Second, just what part of the body is he talking about? The blood? The tissues? The lymph nodes? Trudeau and many other so-called "natural healers" have an extremely oversimplistic view of the body. Their theories, every single one I've seen are, again, just...plain...wrong.
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  darkuncle29

  Do you feel that Western Medicine is the only valid healing modality?

  Where the medicine comes from is not the point. What makes medicine valid is testing done by independent research.

  I thought if the patient gets better the medicine is verified? That's the point right? I'm sure we can find other work for lab techs, but figureing out why a thing works is usefull.

  You cannot just take the personal anecdotes of one or even a dozen people and consider the matter to be closed. Time and time gain, anecdotal evidence has proven to be extremely unreliable. Bottom line, we cannot trust human perception to accurately relay the healing effects of any medicine.

  That's why Vulcans make better scientists. I agree that anecdotes do not give concrete answers, but I also think that they should be investigated, and if found to have merit further looked into.

  Heck, we give people sugar pills and they get better from sheer will. What you call Western Medicine I call Scientific Medicine. So, in short, yes, I believe Scientific Medicine is the only valid healing modality. Why do I believe this? Because there is supporting evidence that is peer-reviewed. It is the only medicine that can be verified independently that it works.

  The placebo effect. Does science completly understand that? Forget about understanding it, how about just harnessing it. And it can't solve all problems: If you're in a wreck and get a rebar stuck through your skull and you're still alive, the placebo effect is not what your paramedics are going to need to beef up on.

  I teased you about using Vulcans for scientists, but seriously, human being is all we have for the time being. And that is why the peer-review is not infallable. The past hundred years has many examples of scientists who were poopooed by their peers, only to be vindicated later. There is no medal for that, no apology, no amends for having their careers ruined.

  I am not saying we should discard the scientific method, just that we should humble ourselves a little.

  Do you think that it is possible for some so called alternative healing practices to actually have some merit?

  I not only believe it's possible, I believe it's inevitable. But, you cannot convince me that any one specific treatment works from testimonials alone, only from independent peer-reviewed study. I won't say a certain treatment doesn't work without any real testing done on it, but that doesn't mean that it works, either.

  Which ones?

  What about the naturally-occurring substances that have already been proven by modern medicine to be legitimate? Aspirin and Penicillin are among the oldest, most well-documented "natural" medicines available. In fact, you'll be surprised to know that most medicine is made from naturally-occurring ingredients.

  Oops-oh well formatting blip. You can't put a patent on herbal tea, but you can put a patent on synthesized components that you could isolate from herbal tea. Most if not all healing plants have one or two components of interest and many other bio products that can funtion as buffers or boosters. What happens if when you isolate the main component from its source, that you loose potency due to loss of synergystic effect? Well then that component would seem to be not effective or less effective. it makes the science and business easier, but the whole point is to make people better, not to make a business or thesis paper.

  My beef with the natural medicine crowd is that they fall into a trap of faulty logic and bogus claims. They can't explain how their "cures" work, just that they do, and when they make the attempt to explain how, it's always based on faulty assumptions and assertions about the human body that are just...plain...wrong. Take for example, Kevin Trudeau's assertion that if a body is "acid" it will develop cancer but if the body is "alkaline" it can't. First off, that's demonstratably wrong. Second, just what part of the body is he talking about? The blood? The tissues? The lymph nodes? Trudeau and many other so-called "natural healers" have an extremely oversimplistic view of the body. Their theories, every single one I've seen are, again, just...plain...wrong.

  Surprise. This is where I 100% agree with you. Some of these people have as much misguided faith as...well...you know. KT is just a sheister pushing his version of sheist. FWIW, I think the Blood is the one that the pH is about. The CO2 in our blood balances with the Na+, K+ and Ca++, along with many others. Its like a buffer solution, but a nightmare to do the math on. I think healthy blood has a pH of around 7.6-7.65...something like that. To be considered acidic, it would only have to change to <7.0, but even a change to 7.3-7.4 would be bad I think. If you have a friend who is a nurse you could ask them the blood pH thing. There's no argument here. I just have personal issues with Dr.s, I was once severly overmedicated and passed around like a guinea pig. My health suffered and so did I. Going through massage school introduced me to alot of quaks too. Some mean well, others are deliberate sheisters, and they all take people's money. Personally I think that combining western scientific medicine with some alternative therapies is the bestsolution.
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  freeme

  THATS SO TRUE!

  jws wont ask! thats why they do anything when someone tells them its good. jws in my direct surrounding are all homeopathy cracks (and dont know anything about it - for them its just "natural meds".) and some of them do some weired stuff with a device very similar to that scientology device. one of them runs a practice for it! they are excited of it.

  i personally think that this stuff made me think in the first place. im a critical person and always was. my sense of bogus in such stuff made me some day questioning my believe too. the whole time before some fear deep inside of me held me back from questioning my believe system. thank god, i didnt calm myself down forever.

  edit: yeah that eye thing is big too here. and other stuff too. one elder did one thing over and over again until it came to light that the "doctor" is a "spiritist". i dont remember what it was but he drove like 400km for it (248 miles).
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  Exterminator

  To be a good JW, you need to

  • believe big claims without asking yourself too many questions
  • look at science with suspicion
  • hold that the natural is divine, and the human evil
  • depend on an authority

  Thus equiped, you're fair game
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  WTWizard

  I can remember a few different potions I at least tried while a witless. They did not work, or at least they did not work any better than what you could get at a common health food store. There was a product called KM back in the early 1990s; that did nothing. There was a product called barley greens, which proved as worthless as the stuff you get at the health food store.

  I happen to believe in natural and blended medicine, especially with all the failures of allopathic medicine that seem to be in the news these days. However, natural medicine in the hands of those janitors and window washers can be as dangerous, if not more so, since one cannot properly diagnose the problem if one has no experience at anything more complicated than presenting littera-trash at the door. At best, they are a total waste of money. MLM products in particular tend to be hyped up, since the user has incentive to lie about them working to get other distributors interested.

  However, I will make the statement that natural medicine, properly done, is the best one could hope for. If someone can tell you why you are sick and correct the underlying problem (and, in the witlesses, half the time the problem has something to do with their being witlesses), the problem will correct itself. If, for instance, your body is too acid, and you take something to make it more alkaline, things will correct themselves. To do this properly, however, requires knowledge of the chemistry of one's particular body. One could foul things up worse if they are not capable of understanding things. The Internet is a great place to start for general information, but only a capable doctor (whether allopathic or natural) can properly diagnose a condition and treat it (whether by treating the symptoms, reversing the underlying cause, or a combination of both).

  No, I do not recommend joining Herbalife or Amway. In fact, their products (which many witlesses are pushing) are just as bad as the diet shakes found at the supermarket. You find sodium caseinate and/or soy protein isolate in most of them. They are not complete meal substitutes, and one usually gains back any lost weight. I tried Herbalife's energizer, which is nothing more than caffeine. In all, the products I tested from Herbalife were not as good as a good health food store. Amway, I have no information about, but I would assume they are similar.

  If you wish to use natural remedies, I highly recommend getting the products from the best health food store and not from some MLM. You will get better products, and will have a better chance of a good outcome. And, for best results, I recommend consulting a doctor that practices alternative and blended medicine instead of those window washing witlesses.
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  wha happened?

  My ex wife's family was all into whatever crossed their path that particular week. Olive oil/lemon purges, MLM vitamins, buying a juicer, and they had some chiropractor that claimed knowledge of just about everything and would sell them on even more crap.
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  Gregor

  "There is a big difference between being a college educated naturopath and selling crap vitamins for an MLM..."

  Nope, same-o, same-o. It's the witchdoctor business pure and simple. "College Educated Naturopath"? LOL!
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  Confucious

  A friend of mine said that in the WT, like almost all decisions are made for the rank and file. So on the few things that they are allowed "personal choice" on - they go crazy.

  Shoot. Maybe I read it here on this forum... But I heard it said and it's about right.
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  Hope4Others

  Want to buy a used book? ha ha ha

  Hope4Others