JWs selling Bossert Hotel-New York Times Article 1-30-08

by AndersonsInfo 59 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  ronin1

  Openmind:

  I think you are missing the point of most x-JW's contentions regarding these property sales.

  1. The bible is true, not this organization. That is proven way beyond a doubt by their actions.

  2. The $100,000 question is : where is all this money going that is being obtained from the sales of all these properties? It surely isnt's being used to help the elderly in the congregations or being given to charities outside the organization. And looking at the stories of the JW's in other third-world countries and their KH's leads one to doubt the WTS is helping with funds for building needs also.

  3. Yes, many of us gave monies and time and energies to help either build these properties or renovate these properties,-but not with the intentions that the volunteer workers would be 'put of to pasture' at older ages because it was not convenient for the WTS to keep them; and also these properties being sold and the monies and whereabouts of what is being done with the monies not disclosed to the congregations.

  The fact is this organization was corrupt for decades and is still corrupt. IIt is only a money-grubbing organization and it does not care really about Bible truth, just it's own truth...................its so-called spiritual leaders have lied to us, deceived us, twisted the scriptures, added and taken away from the true meaning of scriptural doctrine and have destroyed families.

  Therefore, the selling of these properties is the climax of the WTS's corrupt and misleading acts for decades upon decades.

  Ronin1
• 

  nelly136

  Richard Devine, the building manager for the society, said in a telephone interview on Tuesday that the old hotel was “in very poor condition when we bought it.” The society then began an extensive renovation of the 14-story building.

  Mr. Devine declined to estimate the cost of the renovation of the Italian Renaissance Revival-style building, with its white pillars and crystal chandeliers, but said it was “in the millions.”

  http://www.watchtower.org/e/20010615/article_01.htm

  SUCH emphasis has raised a whole new set of issues and concerns. At what cost should money and material things be pursued? Could we be content with less? Are people actually sacrificing "the real life" on the altar of materialism? Is money the ticket to a happy life?

  Money Mania
  Among human desires and passions—legitimate or otherwise—the love of money vies for the lead. Unlike the desire for sex and food, the mania for money can be constant and unending. Old age does not seem to assuage it. In many cases advancing years may actually increase a person's interest in or concern about money and what it can buy.

  Greed seems to be escalating. The main character in one popular movie said: "Greed works. Greed is good." Although many referred to the 1980's as the Age of Greed, what came before and after shows that human reaction to money has changed little through the years.

  What probably is new is that so many people see opportunities to satisfy instantly the desire for more. It seems that much of the world most of the time spends most of its energy producing and acquiring more and more things. You may agree that having material possessions and spending money have become a passionate—and often most imaginative—endeavor in modern-day life.
• 

  nelly136

  http://www.watchtower.org/e/200702/article_02.htm

  Some churches study business methods to learn how better to “market” their religious services. Congregations pay thousands of dollars to hire church consulting firms. “It was a great investment,” said one satisfied pastor, according to a report on such firms. Megachurches, with congregation members numbering into the thousands, do so well financially that they draw the attention of business publications, such as The Wall Street Journal and The Economist.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/12083/1.ashx/WATCHTOWER+SALES! they sure do!
• 

  nelly136

  would be interesting to know why the 6 tenants get to stay after the sale? if they were just normal drones they'd be relocated?

  what makes them so special that theyre left as sitting tenants as part of the sale agreement? have they bought their apartments in the building?
• 

  nvrgnbk

  would be interesting to know why the 6 tenants get to stay after the sale? if they were just normal drones they'd be relocated?

  what makes them so special that theyre left as sitting tenants as part of the sale agreement?

  Great questions, nelly.

  Rent control is practiced in NYC.

  There may also be some other long term agreements in place.

  have they bought their apartments in the building?

  That is another very good possibilty.

  For Open mind:

  I agree that the selling of properties in and of itself is not something that would or even should scandalize the typical JW.

  However, keeping in mind that we're talking about some of the most expensive real estate in the US and that it's been improved by means of volunteer labor, it does sting a bit when the organization profits so greatly from it. This is especially true in the case of those that have spent a major part of their time and resources on providing labor.

  Imagine the case of a Bethelite having spent the best years of his life working on such projects. When he leaves Bethel to start a family, he returns to work there as a temporary Bethel volunteer a couple of weeks every year. All this he does, not thinking about the Watchtower getting the best return on his/their investment of sweat/sore muscles/talent, but rather out of a sincere desire to assist in providing adequate, even comfortable, housing to his brothers and sisters.

  To illustrate:

  It comes to your attention that a young "struggling" pioneer couple needs a car. You know of them, but you don't know them. They're in another part of the circuit. You have the means to help them out by giving them one of your cars. It's not new, but it runs well. You'll be ok without it, but it will be a sacrifice. You and the wife will just have to carpool. No big deal. You're supporting some young people in fulltime service.

  The couple receives your gift, and it bothers you that they're less than thankful. They act as if you're just doing what you should. You tell yourself that although their lack of appreciation for your sacrifice stings a little, it's really for Jehovah, and He surely is smiling upon you for your generosity. A few months pass and you come to find out that the couple has sold your car to finance their trip to the upcoming international convention in Hawaii.

  How do you feel?
• 

  hillary_step

  Nelly,

  I may be wrong, but if I recall correctly I think that you will find that the sitting tenants were non-JW's who had a legal right to stay given their long tenure.

  Cheers - HS
• 

  erandir

  Nelly,

  I may be wrong, but if I recall correctly I think that you will find that the sitting tenants were non-JW's who had a legal right to stay given their long tenure.

  Cheers - HS

  I can confirm that. About 8 years ago, my wife and I went to Brooklyn and Patterson Bethel for a weekend tour. We got to stay at the Bossert overnight (we had "connections"). Our "tour guide" mentioned these tenants and that they had the legal right to stay there. The subject came up because while we were being shown the lobby and hearing about the history of the building and its new renovation, an older man entered the lobby, was greeted by the attendant, and proceeded to the elevator. Judging by his appearance (unshaved, sloppy attire, etc.), he wasn't a Bethelite.
• 

  tijkmo

  Judging by his appearance (unshaved, sloppy attire, etc.), he wasn't a Bethelite.

  ha that could have been me lol....i went in to meet some boys who had stayed with us when they visited scotland ..and it was after i had spent the day walking around manhatten and across the brooklyn bridge on a roasting hot day in shorts and slogan t-shirt and baseball boots...i certainly got some strange looks that day. (from the bethel - nobody else cared)

  If COs were driving Beemers & Mercedes I think the average JW would have a problem with that. Buicks, not so much.

  a survey was done in britain comparing the cars they use - vauxhall vectras - to mercs...worked out the mercs were far more cost effective (last longer and less maintenance)..when the overseer (whos name escapes me - but was mispronounced by the chairman at an assembly so he shouted it correctly from the side) was informed of this he said that he already knew but couldnt give the c.o.s mercs cos the congs would object.
• 

  LennyinBluemont

  Here's my take on it. This is asset protection 101. The WT recently got a pretty painful jab to the tune of $13 million due to some pedophilia on the part of local representatives of the corporation. They knew it was in the pipeline for years and hoped to avoid it, but didn't. They know there are more in the pipeline. What to do? They've got pretty deep pockets, at least tens if not hundreds of millions in assets. The U.S. is the most litigious society on planet earth. Is that where you'd want to keep all your assets, particularly with your exposure to high limit lawsuits? A federal judge can seize any property within U.S. borders to settle a civil or criminal matter. Can you say hotels, factories, residence and office complexes? He/she has no jurisdiction when it comes to assets outside the U.S. What you do is simple. You liquidate and move the assets offshore. (This is what O.J. did. That's why he's never paid a penny of the multi-million dollar judgment against him in the Goldman case. It's been said that half the members of Congress have offshore corporations to protect their assets.) I'd be willing to bet anyone here a Guiness that the Society has offshore corporations in the Cayman Islands, and the bank accounts attached to those corporations are getting bigger everyday as the fixed assets are liquidated and the cash conveyed offshore. They can then use those corporations to invest the funds for growth. Here's another prediction: They will source out all printing and shipping in the future to remove exposure to those assets as well. They're circling the wagons, folks.
• 

  Open mind

  Thanks for your replies ronin1 and Nvr.
  
  I agree with you guys personally because I no longer believe this is God's Organization.
  
  And that is the key.
  
  Nvr: I thank you for taking the time to think up and type out that scenario. But here's where, IMO, your scenario doesn't accurately compare to the whole Brooklyn Real Estate shuffle. In your story your were helping out a couple of "INDIVIDUALS" at great personal sacrifice and then they squandered it. Yeah, I'd be irritated.
  
  But this is the BORG doing this. Which is the same as Jehovah. Huge difference. What the Borg wants is God's will. We all should be grateful to even get a few spiritual crumbs in the courtyard. This life is just a blink anyway. It's not the real life. Be glad you didn't have to endure concentration camps. Keep a simple spiritual eye and your appreciation for Jehovah's Celestial Chariot strong. The main thing is that we stay "faithful" (blindly obedient) and make it through Armageddon.
  
  Anyway, my whole point in bringing this up is I want to "keep it real" for anyone who pops in here. From the viewpoint of a 100% true believer, this stuff is a good use of "unrighteous riches".
  
  Think I'm gonna hurl now.
  
  OM