While sitting at the meeting fighting sleep last Sunday, I was reading the magazine and an interesting comment came up ! page 28 heading 4:3, In what way will Jehovahs worshipers tread down the wicked? The paragraph states "Gods people on earth will not literally tread down the wicked, that is share in executing his judgement upon them. Rather, this suggests that Jehovah's earthly servants will do so figuratively by wholeheartedly participating in the victory celebration that will follow the end of satans world." scriptures used are psalm 145;20 AND revelation 20:1-3 my question is this, just what celebration are they talking about? \This sounds like the wts is putting words in the bible that are not there ???
Dec. 15, 2007 magazine question.
by memphisbelle 10 Replies latest watchtower bible
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inkling
This sounds like the wts is putting words in the bible that are not there?
hm, that would be a first.
[ink]
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rocky
NO .....
It is NOT the first time things like that have been said ..... for example the revelation book:
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Judgment must be executed! "And the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth,and he hurled it into the great winepress of the anger of God. And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress as highup as the bridles of the horses, foradistance of a thousand six hundred furlongs."(Revelation14:19,20) Jehovah’s indignation against this vine has long since been announced. (Zephaniah 3:8) A prophecy in the book of Isaiah leaves no doubt that whole nations will be destroyed when the winepress is trampled. (Isaiah 63:3-6) Joel too prophesied that huge "crowds," whole nations, would be trampled to destruction in "the winepress," in "the low plain of the decision." (Joel 3:12-14) Truly, a stupendous harvest the like of which will never again occur! According to John’s vision, not only are the grapes harvested but the whole symbolic vine is cut down and thrown into the winepress to be trampled. So the vine of the earth will be stamped out and will never be able to grow again.
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The visionary treading is done by horses, for the blood trodden out from the vine reaches "the bridles of the horses." Since the term "horses" usually refers to war operations, this must be a time of war. The armies of the heavens that follow Jesus into the final war against Satan’s system of things are said to tread "the winepress of the anger of the wrath of God the Almighty." (Revelation 19:11-16) These are clearly the ones that do the treading of the vine of the earth. The winepress is "trodden outside the city," that is, outside heavenly Zion. Indeed, it is fitting that the vine of the earth should be trodden on earth. But it will also be "trodden outside the city" in that no harm will come to the remaining ones of the woman’s seed, who represent the heavenly Zion on earth. These together with the great crowd will be safely hidden within Jehovah’s earthly organizational arrangement.—Isaiah 26:20, 21.So JW's will not KILL others ..... rather fear the angels...!!!
and even more texts: (insight book part 2):
VENGEANCE
Infliction of punishment in return for an injury or offense; retributive action. The Greek word ek·di·ke´o, rendered "avenge," literally means "from justice," suggesting that the action represents justice achieved. As used in the Bible, "vengeance" usually applies to retribution paid by God in behalf of justice, but it may also refer to a person’s executing that which he may view as just or as equalizing matters to his own satisfaction.
Belongs
toJehovah. Unless a person is qualified as executioner of vengeance by appointment of Jehovah, or by being designated as such by his Word, he does wrong if he attempts to avenge himself or others. "Vengeance is mine, and retribution," says Jehovah. (De 32:35) God is addressed by the psalmist: "O God of acts of vengeance, Jehovah." (Ps 94:1) Accordingly, the individual is condemned by God if he bears a grudge or seeks personal vengeance for real or fancied wrongs done to himself or to someone else.—Le 19:18; Ro 12:19; Heb 10:30.The Scriptures point out that God’s anger rests upon all sinners and transgressors, and that only through God’s undeserved kindness in providing the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ is there a basis for mitigating or withholding the full retributive justice against the sinner. (Ro 5:19-21; 2Co 5:19; Heb 2:2, 3; see RANSOM.) God acts in full harmony with his righteousness when thus forgiving sin, and he is also righteous in bringing judgment upon sinners who reject his provision; such cannot escape divine vengeance.—Ro 3:3-6, 25, 26; compare Ps 99:8.
Jehovah’s
vengeancehasapurpose. Jehovah’s vengeance brings relief and benefit when he acts in behalf of those who trust in him; additionally, it procures praise to him as the just Judge. The psalmist says: "The righteous one will rejoice because he has beheld the vengeance. . . . And mankind will say: ‘Surely there is fruitage for the righteous one. Surely there exists a God that is judging in the earth.’" (Ps 58:10, 11) Therefore, the primary purpose for God’s taking vengeance is to vindicate and glorify his own name and sovereignty. (Ex 14:18; Ps 83:13-18; Isa 25:1-5; Eze 25:14, 17; 38:23) His action also vindicates his servants as being truly his representatives and delivers them from undesirable circumstances.—Ex 14:31; 15:11-16; Eze 37:16, 21-23; Ps 135:14; 148:14; Pr 21:18.A
fixedtimeforGod’svengeance. The Scriptures indicate that God has a due time for large-scale expressions of his vengeance upon his enemies. The prophet Isaiah was commissioned to proclaim "the day of vengeance on the part of our God." God’s vengeance was expressed against ancient Babylon, the oppressor of his people, when the armies of Medo-Persia were used to break her power in 539 B.C.E. (Isa 61:1, 2; 13:1, 6, 9, 17) Jesus Christ, when on earth, quoted part of Isaiah’s prophecy (61:1, 2) and applied it to himself. (Lu 4:16-21) Though the record does not say that he quoted the part concerning "the day of vengeance," in actuality he did proclaim that "day," which came upon Jerusalem in 70 C.E. Jesus foretold the encampment by armies (of the Romans) around the city, telling his followers to flee from Jerusalem when they saw this, "because these are days for meting out justice ["days of vengeance"], that all the things written may be fulfilled."—Lu 21:20-22, Int; compare AT,KJ,Ro,RS.Jesus Christ further said, before his death and resurrection: "Concerning that day and hour [of executing judgment on the present-day system of things] nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father." (Mt 24:36) He thereby revealed that vengeance was sure to be executed at a time known and set by God. He illustrated the sureness of God’s action in his due time in behalf of his name and his servants, speaking of a judge who, because of a widow’s persistence in asking for justice, decided: "I will see that she gets justice ["I shall exact vengeance for her"]." Jesus applied the illustration to God, saying: "Certainly, then, shall not God cause justice to be done for ["do the vengeance of"] his chosen ones who cry out to him day and night, even though he is long-suffering toward them?"—Lu 18:2-8, Int.
Furthermore, in the apostle John’s vision recorded in the book of Revelation, John saw the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work they used to have, crying out: "Until when, Sovereign Lord holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?" The answer they received shows that there is a definite time for the vengeance to be carried out, namely, when "the number [would be] filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been."—Re 6:9-11.
The Scriptures reveal that this execution of vengeance begins on Babylon the Great, then proceeds to come upon "the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies."—Re 19:1, 2, 19-21.
Appointed
Executioners. The Lord Jesus Christ is God’s Chief Executioner of vengeance. The apostle Paul comforts Christians with the words: "It is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you, but, to you who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength."—2Th 1:6-9.The celebration is that Satan has NOT succeeded the ones that survive the old "system of things" and can/may live in the 1000 year of Gods kingdom ... and maybe also forever (which depends on obeying Jehovha's wishes/rules) ...
1 jOH 5:4
because everything that has been born from God conquers the world. And this is the conquest that has conquered the world, our faith.(conquers here does NOT mean something like "make war (incl. killing) and win it"; it means winning the spiritual war that Satan has caused in Jehovahs power)
Sorry if some mistakes are written here my motherlanguage is not english
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VM44
Here are the scriptures:
Psalm 145:20 Jehovah is guarding all those loving him, But all the wicked ones he will annihilate.
Revelation 20: 1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 And he hurled him into the abyss and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things he must be let loose for a little while.
I see no mention of any celebration in these scriptures. Is The Watchtower just making something up that sounds good?
They are not suppose to go "beyond the things written"!
--VM44
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rocky
*** it-2 pp. 1128-1129 Triumphal Procession ***
TRIUMPHAL PROCESSIONA formal procession in celebration of victory over an enemy. The Greek word thri·am·beu´o, meaning "lead in a triumphal procession," occurs only twice in the Scriptures, each time in a somewhat different illustrative setting.—2Co 2:14; Col 2:15.Triumphal Processions Among the Nations. Egypt, Assyria, and other nations commemorated their military victories with triumphal processions. In the days of the Roman republic, one of the highest honors the Senate could bestow on a conquering general was to allow him to celebrate his victory with a formal and costly procession of triumph in which no detail of pomp and glory was overlooked.
The Roman procession moved slowly along ViaTriumphalis and up the winding ascent to the temple of Jupiter atop the Capitoline Hill. Musicians playing and singing songs of victory were at the front, followed by young men leading the sacrificial cattle. Then came open carts loaded with booty, and tremendous floats illustrating battle scenes or the destruction of cities and temples, and perhaps topped with a figure of the vanquished commander. The captive kings, princes, and generals taken in the war, with their children and attendants, were led along in chains, often stripped naked, to their humiliation and shame.
Next came the general’s chariot, decorated in ivory and gold, wreathed with laurel, and drawn by four white horses or, on occasion, by elephants, lions, tigers, or deer. The conqueror’s children sat at his feet or rode in a separate chariot behind him. Roman consuls and magistrates followed on foot, then the lieutenants and military tribunes with the victorious army—all bedecked with garlands of laurel and gifts, and singing songs of praise to their leader. In the vanguard were the priests and their attendants bringing along the chief victim for sacrifice, a white ox.
As the procession passed through the city, the populace threw flowers before the victor’s chariot, and burning incense on temple altars perfumed the way. This sweet odor signified honors, promotion, wealth, and a more secure life for the victorious soldiers, but it signified death to the unpardoned captives who would be executed at the end of the procession. This fact throws light on Paul’s spiritual application of the illustration at 2 Corinthians 2:14-16.
Triumphal arches were built in honor of some generals. The Arch of Titus in Rome still commemorates the fall of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. (PICTURE, Vol. 2, p. 536) Accompanied by his father, Emperor Vespasian, Titus celebrated his victory over Jerusalem by a triumphal procession. Some arches served as city gates, but for the most part their function was only monumental. The design of the arches may have represented the yoke of submission under which captives were forced to march.Christians Share in Triumphal Procession. It was from such examples and general knowledge of the times that Paul drew his metaphor when writing to the Corinthians: "Thanks be to God who always leads us in a triumphal procession in company with the Christ." (2Co 2:14-16) The picture presents Paul and fellow Christians as devoted subjects of God, "in company with the Christ," as sons, ranking officers, and victorious soldiers, all following in God’s train and being led by him in a grand triumphal procession along a perfumed route.
At Colossians 2:15, the situation is quite different. Here the enemy governments and authorities under Satan are described as the captives and prisoners in the triumphal procession. These Jehovah the Conqueror strips naked and exhibits in open public as defeated ones, the ones conquered "by means of it," that is, by means of "the torture stake" mentioned in the previous verse. Christ’s death on the torture stake not only provided the basis for removing "the handwritten document," the Law covenant, but also made it possible for Christians to be freed from bondage to the satanic powers of darkness.Other Processions. The Bible also refers to other processions, occasions when throngs moved along together in celebration of outstanding events. David described Jehovah’s victorious procession from Sinai to the holy temple site in Jerusalem—war chariots of God, captives, singers and musicians, and congregated throngs blessing the Holy One of Israel. (Ps 68:17, 18, 24-26) A procession was included in the inaugural celebration at the time of completion of the rebuilding of Jerusalem’s walls in the days of Nehemiah. (Ne 12:31) And a "festival procession" is referred to in Psalm 118:27, evidently in connection with the annual Festival of Booths.
*** w07 12/15 p. 28 Highlights From the Book of Malachi ***
4:3—In what way will Jehovah’s worshippers "tread down the wicked"? God’s people on earth will not literally "tread down the wicked," that is, share in executing his judgment upon them. Rather, this suggests that Jehovah’s earthly servants will do so figuratively by wholeheartedly participating in the victory celebration that will follow the end of Satan’s world.—Psalm 145:20; Revelation 20:1-3.
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w02 5/1 p.20 par.6 Who Will Survive the Day of Jehovah?***6
What of those who ignore Jehovah’s requirements? Malachi 4:3 states: "‘You people [God’s servants] will certainly tread down the wicked ones, for they will become as powder under the soles of your feet in the day on which I am acting,’ Jehovah of armies has said." Human worshipers of God will not take part in destroying Satan’s world. Rather, they figuratively "tread down the wicked ones" by sharing in the victory celebration that follows the day of Jehovah. A great celebration followed the destruction of Pharaoh’s armies in the Red Sea. (Exodus 15:1-21) The removal of Satan and his world at the great tribulation will likewise be followed by a victory celebration. Faithful survivors of Jehovah’s day will cry out: "Let us be joyful and rejoice in the salvation by him." (Isaiah 25:9) What exultation there will be when Jehovah’s sovereignty is vindicated and the earth is cleansed for peaceful habitation!
I hope this will give you an answer....?
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BluesBrother
When a nation has won a war the victory is celebrated and thanks given to god. We saw that when G Bush proclaimed victory in Iraq , when the British declared victory over Argentina and whenever..But I thought that "Jehovah's people" were supposed to be made of better stuff?
*** w56 8/1 pp. 464-465 pars. 15-17 Jehovah’s Message Against Gog of Magog ***
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"So devastating that slaughter, the dead will cover the ground as manure spread over a field. "Prophesy all this against them; tell them: The Eternal [Jehovah, AS] will roar from on high, . . . The din resounds to the world’s end, for the Eternal arraigns the nations, he indicts all mankind, and puts the wicked to the sword. Then shall the victims of the Eternal lie all over earth, from end to end, like dung on the face of the ground, unwailed, ungathered, unburied. Howl and cry, you rulers, roll in the ashes, you lords of the flock! ’Tis high time you were slain, and slain you shall be, falling like choice lambs. No escape for the rulers, no way for the lords of the flock to flee!"—Jer. 25:30, 31, 33-35, Mo.
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In the wake of Armageddon’s carnage, disease and pestilence from the rot and decay would plague the survivors were it not for the fact that Jehovah sends forth an invitation to the birds and beasts to attend this great slaughter. "Speak unto the birds of every sort, and to every beast of the field," Jehovah says, and say to them, "Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, . . . Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth." This certainly shows the contempt in which Jehovah holds the proud and haughty of Gog’s system, letting the wild beasts and vultures feed upon them as worthless carrion!—Ezek. 39:17, 18, AS.17
With such a glorious feast of victory concluded, only the bones, bones from one end of the earth to the other, will be left for burial. What a task that will be for the survivors, to cleanse the earth of every remaining evidence of Gog’s forces! Even with the work well organized it will take seven months, Jehovah says, just to bury the bones. Scouting corps will be sent out on a full-time basis to search the land thoroughly and, when bones are found, markers will be set up for those with the spades and shovels who follow. (Ezek. 39:14, 15) Those privileged to share in that cleanup work will not view it as a revolting and disgusting assignment but will rejoice to be alive when Gog’s long and oppressive rule has come to an end and when the wicked are no more. Survivors of Armageddon will be happy and will greatly rejoice to have a share in preparing the earth for a global paradise of beauty and perfection under the reign of the King Christ Jesus. But first, before that happy day, this message against Gog must be delivered in its completeness."...................................................................................................................................................................................................
BTW The 'tower has since said that the birds and the bone -squads may be symbolic and perhaps not entirely literal. But the principle is just the same. They look forward to one hell of a party when "The Battle" is over, at the expense of "wicked worldlings " like us
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oompa
I think this is the first time the ol GB shows they want to party!!!.................oompa
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Hortensia
it's a bloodthirsty organization, isn't it? Not only are they going to watch jehovah destroy billions of people in the hugest bloodbath on earth, they are then going to party. I suppose they'll be picking out their houses - with no worldly people around to run all the systems, and an earth full of lawyers and janitors, it ought to be interesting to say the least.
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rocky
No it is peacefully ....
It is up to us to make a right choice so we can live forever or be destroyed ... as a punishment... I thought most of you should know that ....
see the WT 15-12-07:
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w0712/15p.25par.15NoWeaponFormedAgainstYouWillSucceed***15
ReadZechariah12:9. Why does Jehovah "seek to annihilate all the nations"? Because they persistently oppose the Messianic Kingdom. For harassing and persecuting God’s people, they stand condemned. Soon Satan’s earthly agents will undertake a final attack on God’s true worshippers, which will lead to the world situation described in the Bible as Har–Magedon. (Revelation 16:13-16) Responding to that assault, the Supreme Judge will defend his servants and sanctify his name among the nations.—Ezekiel 38:14-18, 22, 23.
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2112
This must be old light since the April 2008 WT says we will have to get rid of "valueless things". Would not a celebration be "valueless"?