Danish film, "Worlds Apart," (about JW girl) reviewed by XJW author

by AndersonsInfo 53 Replies latest jw friends

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  ziddina

  "I hoped the elders wouldn't expel me..." Ahhh, but she committed 'fornication' after dragging her worldly boyfriend to a JW assembly; THEN she cuts off sexual relations with him after INITIATING an ongoing sexual relationship with him - talk about giving the poor guy MIXED MESSAGES!!!

  Now she's leaving the 'worldly' boy; she could have lived with him for a few years and gotten a better education, moved out when she was able to support herself.... Yeeeesh.... She tells the boy she 'loves' him, but 'has to' leave him... Knucklehead.... She's spouting mixed messages - i suppose - because she's received nothing BUT mixed messages from the WTBTS since she first was introduced to the cult... By her parents, apparently... They threw in the 'blood' issue, too - her friend "Thea" dies on the operating table after an accident - refused blood and died with Jehovah's approval... Finally "Sara" shows some backbone and shows up at "Thea's" funeral, even tho she's disfellowshipped. Interesting that Thea's mother makes contact with disfellowshipped 'Sara' during the funeral...

  Now Sara's disfellowshipped brother, "Jonas", tells Sara that he's going back into the religion - why the heck didn't he join with Sara so they could support each other?? They could have pooled their resources and helped each other; the WTBTS has succeeded in keeping them from seeing the potential for positive actions in their lives... Sheesh... Movie's ending now... There's the real "Sara" - the blond girl on the train who smiles at the actress playing "Sara"....
• 

  smiddy

  Ninjen

  Is the dvd available here in oz land ??

  smiddy
• 

  dgp

  I bought the DVD and I think it's been worth every penny I paid for it. For your information, I indeed am the unbeliever in love with the sincere and probably hard-core witness. So the big discovery for me was not to put myself on Teis' shoes, but on Sara's.

  I do find much sense in Ziddina's posts, only that I view them from another angle.

  I would really recommend every unbeliever in love to watch this movie. Because it makes you think whether you should actually keep trying to win your witness' love, or just leave her be. On the one hand, it makes you feel that the witnesses are trapped in an inhumane system, one you wouldn't bear living in. On the other hand, you understand that leaving is not that easy. You might decide whether to pursue your interest on the basis of what the consequences could be, and whether the witness you love is willing and could really face the loss of her entire world.

  And if you're getting involved with a witness, you'd better really love her, and really mean it if you say you'll be by her side. Because you would be taking her away from her world.

  For the witnesses who might read this, know that the unbeliever truly loves you. It would be so easy to find someone who wouldn't bring us so many problems. If we stay, it's not just out of stubbornness or ignorance, but a matter of real love. We just can't leave you to your own devices. We feel that you're working so bad that it would be selfish for us not to be there for you.

  One more thing: an unbeliever understands the movie best after taking serious time to read about the society. Otherwise, the feeling is there that something is the matter with the religion, but you can't quite grasp what it is.

  This movie helped me with my particular situation. I'm so glad I bought it.
• 

  dissed

  I just set the DVR to record it on Tuesday.....should be interesting
• 

  teel

  Ziddina, a few clarifications, because I think you misunderstood some points. Or at least this is what I understood from the movie.

  [SPOILERS coming]

  Sara's mother was a conscious JW, she was only in to be able to see her children, and maybe to help them get out. That's why Sara confided in her. It was not the mother who rattled her out, she protected Sara's secret, she even said to Sara's sister that Sara is indeed living with her (although it was obvious she was not).

  For the same reason was Jonas returning. In every scene he's portraying a truly lost boy, who just can't go on alone like that. His decision to return came before Sara completely cutting off all ties.

  After their first intercourse Sara never went in nun mode. She slept with Teis, she just kept her stuff in the basement and said "in case someone asks, I sleep here". When the elders came to visit, Teis rushed to bring all her stuff down from their common bedroom. It was pretty clear to me they continued having sex. Sara wanted to avoid the shunning, that's why she tried to keep all the appearences.

  I do agree with her having a great support system. However I do admire her (the real girl, if she did something similar) because of her moral standards that is way higher above the average JW's. She realized it's not fair for leech off of well-meaning people in her road to recovery, and that her love for Teis was stained by the emotional damage the WT did. That's why she said "I have tried to replace all that I lost with you". Her love might not have been true because of the circumstances, and wouldn't have been fair to Teis to keep it up in hopes that it will get better in time.

  True, she was sending mixed messages, and the whole thing was just bizarre, but that's the price you pay for getting involved in a high-control cult.
• 

  dgp

  Teel, you wrote "true, she was sending mixed messages, and the whole thing was just bizarre, but that's the price you pay for getting involved in a high-control cult".

  An unbeliever involved with a witness NEEDS to get used to mixed messages. My witness always shows a very clear pattern: hateful first, mellow and incredibly sweet later, and hurtful in the end. She asks for help and then makes everything possible not to receive it. I understood long ago, thanks to Steven Hassan, that it's her real self fighting her witness self. Her witness self wins because she is afraid of dying at Armageddon. Her witness self tells her that I'm a man who will die in no time and it just doesn't make sense to even bother with me. You have to get used to that.

  The unbeliever will also send mixed messages, because he KNOWS the religion is man made, and THEREFORE, he thinks joining is no big deal, and the woman he loves so much is well worth the price. Did you notice Teis supposedly went to study, went to the convention, and then in the end just recognized that he didn't believe anything?

  In my opinion the movie was wonderfully made. It does capture several fine points, despite the mistakes others have pinpointed, like an elder with a beard, or Thea's mother holding a disfellowshipped Sara. The fine points of the unbeliever's behavior are also well presented. Outside of the society, who would even have to bother to make it look like the girl sleeps in a different room?
• 

  ziddina

  Teel, I understand your points, BUT... Your comment, "However I do admire her (the real girl, if she did something similar) because of her moral standards that is way higher above the average JW's...."

  No, no no!!! Look at Sara's FIRST sexual encounter with Teis - TOTALLY opposite to EVERYTHING she'd been taught, "immoral", not to mention 'off-the-wall' - done after he'd gone to a JW assembly with her???? And - had Sara 'stayed the course', there's a possibility that Teis might have - at least STUDIED with the JWs... Sara's blatant hypocrisy astonished Teis, and [I hate using 'buzz' phrases, but it fits here...] "stumbled" him - the mixed messages negated the superficial message Sara was giving him - "Become a JW and then we can be together" - she BROKE THE RULES HERSELF, and it astonished Teis...

  Then this business of 'pretending' that they 'weren't' having sex, necessitating Teis' acrobatics with the "living arrangements", THAT's what I was referring to when I said Sara suddenly acted like a NUN... Tho, I also got the impression that Sara and Teis' sex life suffered from the guilt Sara felt and her inability to just CUT LOOSE from all the idiotic teachings of the JWs...

  Your comment, "She realized it's not fair for leech off of well-meaning people in her road to recovery..." I don't consider acceptance of help to be a form of "leeching"... Don't we all accept assistance if needed? Medicaide, Medicare, Workman's Comp, unemployment insurance, grants for higher education, food stamps, welfare, and so on?? These things can help a person - especially a JW who's just escaped the cult - over the "rough spots" until they've become self-supporting...

  SARA herself sabotaged her own opportunities to succeed in converting Teis, to successfully carry on a 'double' life [she could have actually STAYED WITH her mother while discreetly 'seeing' Teis], to perform a successful 'fade' that would have allowed her to continue to talk to her family - clearly demonstrates "cognitive dissonance", I think, in Sara's bizarre behavior...

  But it is difficult to leave.... Perhaps it was beyond the capabilities of a naive, sheltered, seventeen-year-old girl with little experience in discretion and effective dissembling... I further state that this is WHAT THE WATCHTOWER ORGANIZATION SET HER UP FOR - one of the main reasons the WTBTS hates higher education - in fact, anything that acquaints JWs with the way the 'world' REALLY works... It keeps the JWs dependent upon the diseased WTBTS "mother".... Yuuuuukkk....

  But it's an effective movie in many, many ways... Zid

  P.S. DGP, I thought I read in some post - quite a ways back - they're less strict about BEARDS on JWs in Europe, I guess...
• 

  teel

  Yes, cognitive dissonance is the keyword to understanding Sara's behavior. She indeed did some bad things, and totally messed up Teis' life too. Which is exactly why I respect her when she realized the damage she's doing she was able to give up all the support, and her own "happiness" for the well being of others. That, I feel is a much more moral thing to do, than not to sleep with someone who's not your spouse.

  In "leech" I was referring also to the damage she was doing to others while she was getting help, not just the acceptance of help (leeches don't just feed themselves, they hurt you in the process).

  PS: someone said the beards are acceptable in Denmark. It is not true for the whole Europe however. I never heard of actual problem because of that, but I am sure they wouldn't tolerate an elder with beard here (Romania), neither I ever saw anyone (not just elders) with beard. On that note my first ever FS experience was when I showed up neatly dressed, shirt, nice pants, and without a tie... so instead of going to my first FS we went to the JW who "studied the Bible" with me, and studied some more WTS publications, especially focusing on the points of dressing. My dressing was perfectly fine, I could have walked into a business meeting and feel right at home, but FS without a tie... no way.
• 

  ziddina

  Teel, you said, "In "leech" I was referring also to the damage she was doing to others while she was getting help, not just the acceptance of help (leeches don't just feed themselves, they hurt you in the process..."

  Well, as I said before, she was a naive, sheltered seventeen-year-old girl... She WASN'T on drugs; a more expensive problem than deprogramming after being in the JW cult, though probably no less COMplicated... I suspect that she refused offers of help because she DIDN'T FEEL WORTHY of help - a nasty side-effect of the heapings of guilt dumped on ALL JWs' heads... In addition, there may have been a feeling of inferiority because she was a female JW - that may have also contributed to her feelings of worthlessness...

  But there was no way that Sara would have been a "leech" - she might have PERCEIVED herself as one, but her self-perception was inaccurate, as is EVERYONE's who has ever been in a cult...

  I'm wondering, Teel, did you refuse offers of help when you exited?? That is, if you have exited - haven't read your 'story' at this point, sorry... Your comment: "it's not fair for leech off of well-meaning people in her road to recovery..." I've said it before, and I'll say it again - ACCEPTING HELP FROM OTHER PEOPLE IS NOT "LEECHING"!!!

  Now, I HAVE seen "leeches" in action... They're the ones who move in and sit around, never offering to help with the housework or expenses, take too long finding gainful employment, and in general behave like babies in a crib... I personally know of a family in the SCA - that's "Society for Creative Anachronism", a Medieval re-enactment club that's been in existence for over 40 years - who is dealing with such a situation right now - I'm babysitting his cats for him in order to prevent them being put to sleep at the local animal impound. They've had him in their home for almost 8 months now - in between his 'hospital' stays - and I've had his cats for 5 months - and he's NEVER even called ONCE to see how his little "babies" are doing - NEVER sends ANY money as contribution towards their food/vetrinarian care...

  And THAT, Teel... THAT is a LEECH in action... But for an exiting JW to ask for help, nooooo, that's not parasitic... If that's your mindset, please learn to accept [at least] a little help from others!!

  Zid
• 

  wannabefree

  I watched this with the family tonight. It was interesting observing how it affected different family members. I am curious to see what kind of conversations I can have with them about it.