Finally-Free, if I recall correctly, all the Apostolic Churches believe in the Real Presence. Roman, Orthodox, Ethiopian. Armenian, etc.
The idea of it being symbolic only became widespread in the Protestant denominations.
Burn
Partaking of the emblems at home - need thoughts/experiences please
by wildfell 58 Replies latest jw friends
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justhuman
Justhuman, does this mean the Orthadox Church believes in the 'real presence' as the Catholic Church does? I haven't had a chance to check the link you provided yet, but I forwarded it to my email account to check when I get home. I didn't realize that anyone other than the Catholic church believed in the 'real presence'.
Yeah indeed, Orthodox Church is the one that holds real presence of the Early Christian Church. In fact the Bible Cannon it was set by the Orthodox Church. The Church was united until the 1080 A.D when the Schisma occured. The main reason was political games by the Franks, that lead to the sepparation of the Church.
The Orthodox Church can trace back of Apostolic Succesion of 2000 years, starting from Ignatios the next Bishop after James. In fact the Orthodox Theology it is different from the "Catholic"(Papal Church) and the main reason is language...Because Greek is one of the most beautiful and rich languages to speak, and trying to change a specific meaning from Greek to Latin it leads to misconseptions. That is why the "Holy Catholic Orthodox Church" is keeping the original Greek texts in the ceremonies at the Church.
I was supprised when I realize that there is an Apostolic Church that kept Christianity for 2000 years the way it was delivered to us from Jesus and the Apostles...
But generaly the Church does not fell into the trap to condemn other Christian religions, or it claims that is the only one that God accepts. At the end faith is a personal thing and each of us it will be judged according to its actions.
But technically speaking yes, indeed the Orthodox Church has the Apostolic Succesion and kept the Christian Faith
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tula
I do not belive that the wine "really turns into blood" as what is being described here.
This was another SYMBOLIC message.
This ritual which began with the "Passover" where they were to mark their doors with blood, developed into a yearly occassion to remember their exodus from slavery.
When Jesus, as the ultimate and only legitimate sacrifice, performed the ritual, there was a symbol message.
By saying "drinking my blood and eating my body" he meant that by doing this in that frame of mind, that one would be willing to walk in his footsteps, stand up for the truth, and be prepared to sacrifice whatever you have to not to give up your integrity.
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BurnTheShips
By saying "drinking my blood and eating my body" he meant that by doing this in that frame of mind, that one would be willing to walk in his footsteps, stand up for the truth, and be prepared to sacrifice whatever you have to not to give up your integrity.
Maybe so, but this is not preclude how it has been historically interpreted since early times. For example, Ignatius was a student of the Apostle John. In his Letter to the Romans , A.D. 110 he wrote:
"I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible"Also, Ignatius' Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 A.D. 110
"Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . .. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes"There is also Justin Martyr, who lived during a time in which living people still had firsthand knowledge of what the Apostles taught in First Apology written 151 A.D.:"We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus"
The early Christians believed in the real presence.
Burn
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tula
for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible"
This is simply symbolic poetic language.
It is not vampirism like you are attempting to portray.
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BurnTheShips
Please look at the other cites.
"Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . .. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes"
Before the reformation, as far as I can tell, the belief in the real presence was universal.
Sincerely,
Burn
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AshtonCA
"AshtonCA, you mentioned that passover is April 19 this year. I had previously googled this and discovered the same thing.
Wonder why the jw's are not having their memorial on nisan 14 this year? Or was that another thing they scammed us about all
these years? Nothing they do would surprise me anymore."
Wildfell,
Yes, this urked me big time when I found out that most of my life they didn't get Nisan 14 right, and the reason is they use the Gregorian Calendar, and the Jews use the Jewish calendar. Seems like if you are going to celebrate a Jewish holiday (Jesus was a Jew after all lol), that you'd use the calendar that would give you the actual date of Nisan 14. But, now we know, and now that's what our family does.
Ashton
P.S. I still can't figure out how to quote in the little box like most of yall do. I can't seem to find the button that makes the box to type in the quote. -
tula
The western world uses the Gregorian calendar based on the sun. The Jewish calendar is split into twelve months based on the lunar cycle. To bring it in line with the seasons, however, a thirteenth month, Adar Sheni (Adar II) is regularly added. The dates of Jewish holidays do not change from year to year. It just seems that way to us because feast dates fall on different days on the Gregorian calendar.
...the additional month was introduced automatically seven times in a lunar cycle of nineteen years; in the years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 19 of the cycle (Encyclopedia of Judaism 1989).