by Princess Daisy Boo 29 Replies latest jw experiences
South Africa is considering bringing in a "pledge" that kids in school will repeat each day. We never had such a thing as kids growing up, but when the national anthem was sung, we always had to stay seated and not participate. I remember always hearing about flag saluting in other countries. I hated that - I hated having to be so different from the other kids.
What was it like for you? What do you think of the pledge, flag raising or flag saluting now?
Like you I despised being the outcast when I was younger. Now I am VERY patriotic toward CANADA only (born and raised in the usa and do not consider it my real home, long boring story). Now I am all about country. Hell my 3 year old daughter sings the national anthem with me on hockey night. I went to a hockey game a little bit ago with my witness FIL. When the anthems came on, he made it obvious that he was not going to sit there whilst they were playing, so I said the hell with it and when O Canada was sung I sung it loud and proud. Now it is an honour to be able to sing the anthems (o Canada and God save the Queen)
I never followed the rules. I always said the pledge, stood for it and the national anthem and really didn't give a ratz azz who didn't like it! Why should I stand out for something my parents believed?
nj
My 4th grade teacher physically assaulted me on a number of occasions (including slapping me across the face) for not saluting the flag. She verbally abused me many more times.
I just wanted to be left alone. I did not want to pledge myself to a flag or a country, I wasn't even ten years old. It's like getting baptized at 9.
At times, it was a bit tough standing out because I didn't stand for the flag salute or the pledge. Fortunately, the flag saluting was only an issue in elementary school up to about age 9. National anthems never came up except at sporting events. I was in marching band in high school. I stood with the band the first time I was with them at a football game, but did not play. Then my dad talked to me and I didn't stand any more. I always felt subconcious then. But there is some value in having the strength to go resist the crowd and do your own thing
Despite the discomfort with standing out, I don't feel anyone should be coerced to pledge allegiance to a flag or stand during a national anthem. Refusal to do either is does not even hint at treason or wanting to harm your country and it should be a personal choice. I once went to a graduation after I had left the JW, but I was sitting with some of my JW family members. Though I personally had no problem standing for the national anthem, I decided to sit with them while the national anthem was played, because I wanted to stay seated with them. On the other, I am now in a community concert band, and I had the opportunity to play the National Anthem, "The Star Spangled Banner" for the first time last summer at 5 concerts. It is a great song and I feel proud of my country when I play it. But the freedom it represents extends to the choice to stand or not while it is played or sung. Nobody should be a patriotic nationalist robot unquestioningly doing everything the Mother country tells them to do.
there is an interesting essay in the book "parenting beyond belief" - i believe this essay is by julia sweeny, of snl fame - anyways it was cool that she gave her daughter two ways to think of it and waited for her daughter to make the decision she felt good about. in the end her daughter choose to salute the flag - she saw it as only a sign of respect and not worship. btw - i loved this book!
I personally do not think that students, or anyone else, should be forced to recite the plege of allegiance on a routine basis. That doesn't mean that I agree with the WTS' position though.
What's the difference of being told by the government to plege allegiance or being told by a fundamentalist religion to not pledge allegiance? It should be an individual choice...a choice that a grade school student is not equipped to handle.
I didn't pledge as a child because I was taught not to by my JW parents. I suffered some persecution, for lack of a better word, for it. But I suffered for my parents beliefs not for my own. I didn't understand the implications of pledging or not.
Today, as an adult and free of the dogma of the JWs and WTS, I don't pledge allegiance when in a situation where it is called for. I refuse to give allegiance to any government or religion at this point in my life. I may love the country I live in but that doesn't mean I have to give blind devotion to its government, ignoring the many atrocities that it has committed under that flag.
That's not to say that I show disrespect to the flag or the national anthem. I stand respectfully and face the flag during the NA or the pledge and quietly mind my own business as all those that wish to pledge do so.
Daisy,
What do you think of the pledge, flag raising or flag saluting now?
Having young kids recite a pledge of loyalty or allegence to the flag is a form of indoctrination pure and simple. The "state" is doing a great harm and disservice to these young minds with such indoctrination practices which smacks of George Orwell's "Nineteen Eighty Four".
Hey I'm all for giving everyone the freedom if they so wish it to recite some pledge allegence to any flag they choose(even the nazi swastika if they so desire, makes no difference to me) and engage in any indoctrinating exersize they so choose as much and as often as they like, but totally against having it mandated as a regular ritual in the public school system as form of indoctrination.
And don't get me started on the slanted, biased and mandatory subject of "american history" as taught government funded schools, which really amounts to a dumbing down of our children.
All though I never said the anthem, I do remember all the words when I was in elementary school in Detroit.
"I pledge allegiance to the flag and to the United States of America.........(you get the drift)
Years ago they used to say the "Lords Prayer" at the begining of morning classes in Canada, but now I think they just sing "Oh Canada" on Friday morning assemblies when all the grades
meet together. They pretty much let jw's leave the room and stand out in the hallway so there consciences are not bothered.
Hope4Others
I personally never got any flack over the flag fluff, yet I got hell for all else.
I stood during the Pledge everyday as a way of being respectful (my public school also played the anthem during the pledge). I never put my hand on my heart or uttered those words. I think the fact that I stood instead of staying seated during things like this eased tensions.
I am sure that the US pledge was meant to unite, as I am sure your proposed pledge is meant to do. In the end you it is a matter of choice, do you agree with the pledge being said? Is the pledge mandatory or voluntary?
I am personally still anti-Pledge, but this doesn't mean that I am not appreciative of my nation. I love my liberties, my way of life, and the land on which I call home. I care deeply for those who are wearing or have worn the uniform.
I was taught my allegiances were to be in this order:
1. God Almighty and his accord
2. Family
3. Texas
4.United States.
For those who do not feel it is a breach of neutrality, please consider adopting a unit, or send random cards of encouragement to the troops. So little can mean so much when far away from home and in a combat zone.
