How does anyone know matter didn't always exist?

by D wiltshire 29 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  D wiltshire

  A few days ago I was told matter didn't always exist.
  I was told this by several persons who spoke with much certainty.
  They said matter came from a singularity.
  This as you know raises more questions than it answers.
  Have they any proof that singularities even exist?

  How come people state things as a fact, that they have no solid proof for, and expect others to just beleive them.

  And if you don't accept their beleif, you are said, not to be intelligent.

  Isn't that a case of attacking the STRAW MAN?
  Instead of the argument?
  Doesn't that show that what they say is not base on solid facts, and so they must resort to STRAW MAN attacks.

  If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
• 

  unclebruce

  Geez Mr.Wiltshire,

  What was that? How does anyone matter didn't exist? .. Sounds very SirFREDish to me ..

  anyhow .. I'm sitting here at 2.30am without my Physics for beginers book but it seems to me that if the big boys of science say that in thier learned opinion something is so or most probably so, then us midget nogg'ns best go along with it.

  Current scientific theory is the best guess mankind has at answering the origins of the universe and all things in it.

  The mighty men of science now speak in reverend tones of multipe overlaping universes and up to eight dimensions .. the best we can do is look on in awe and enjoy television shows explaining some of these things in the language of us simple folk.

  Good thing we have no pressing need to find answers or God or paradise or anything. Oh the joys of peaceful peasantry.

  unclebruce who loves science but can't tell a quark from a quazar.
• 

  D wiltshire

  UB,

  I don't mind a little hypothetical this or that conversation.
  In fact I think it's very good.

  What I don't agree with is when some one tries to pass it off as fact, and insults my intelligents if, I ONLY ACCEPT IT AS IT IS,(JUST A THEORY).
  And we all know that revisions will come and what was thought to be the truth yesterday is now old truth, and the revision is now present truth.(A bit like the WT don't you think)

  If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
• 

  julien

  And if you don't accept their beleif, you are said, not to be intelligent.

  Isn't that a case of attacking the STRAW MAN?

  No it would be an ad hominem attack. A straw man attack is when you misrepresent an argument (ie present a false, weak version of it) and then argue against that version.

  How come people state things as a fact, that they have no solid proof for, and expect others to just beleive them.

  I don't know the answer, why don't we ask the next Christian who comes along why they do this?

  That matter came from a singularity can be deduced from known facts, mainly the fact that the universe is expanding; also the background radiation 'signature' present in space. That signature is consistent with data produced in physics labs when particles are smashed together at massively high energies (similating the conditions right after the singularity aka big bang)..
• 

  chappy

  Both scenarios seem impossible, yet one of them is indeed fact.
  Think about it; something tangable with no beginning. The mind can't comprehend it. Think about the other possibility; something tangable coming into existance from absolutely nothing. Can't comprehend that either.

  These are puzzles that the human mind is incapable of solving.

  later,
  chappy
• 

  ballistic

  I'm sure JanH will come to the rescue later but...

  doesnt E=MC2 prove that matter and energy are interchangable without even bringing quantum physics into it?
• 

  Nathan Natas

  One argument might be that if matter had always existed, radioactive elements would no longer exist.
• 

  D wiltshire

  Chappy,

  Yes I agree with you for the mostr part.

  Julien,

  Thanks for the correction(ad hominem attack).

  And good point:
  

  I don't know the answer, why don't we ask the next Christian who comes along why they do this?

  
  I agree both side use the same tactic.

  If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
• 

  D wiltshire

  Nathan Natas,

  How do we know that there isn't some other reason that radioactive element exist?
  

  One argument might be that if matter had always existed, radioactive elements would no longer exist.

  
  Isn't this a case of Black and White thinking?

  If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
• 

  chappy

  Ballistic,

  You're right about relativity (E=Mc2). However both matter and energy are tangable and something tangable from nothing is where the difficulty lies.

  later,
  chappy