what to say?

by xig28 14 Replies latest social relationships

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  xig28

  hello i just started a new profile here but i have been wandering around here for awhile.i have seen many stories somewhat similar to what i have right now. i have read many post from people here and they have been somewhat helpful ,but now i need help with a little of my own problem. for future refrences i apologize if my story isnt as descriptive as i want it to be but please read until the very end.

  Well for starters i am 16, yes i am young and have my entire life ahead of me to enjoy but idk if i can fully enjoy it but please just listen to my story. About 5 1/2 months ago i met who i feel is one of the most beautiful girl inside and out. i have 2 classes with her and we pretty much have been hanging out ever since then. always talking about something new, we always make each other laugh. we just make each other happy. as time past our friendship had grown stronger and stronger everyday. in my mind i feel that this girl has got everything I want and she most likely felt the same way as well. i felt so sure that we would have a good relationship. one day i asked her if she can ever see herself with me. she said "yes" and i felt so damn happy but she told me she would want her "first" to be her "last". i just thought for a bit on that.....

  it was holloween and we were hanging out during p.e since we didnt have to do anyhting. we were walking around and i asked what is she gonna do for holloween. she said nothing and myself being curious i asked why. she just went on saying that she doesnt like holloween and i just let the conversation go. 2 minutes later she tells me she is a jehovah witness. i looked down for a bit and then looked at her for a bit and told her" so thats why i get it" jokely trying to keep a positive mood but deep down i didnt like it.she has been baptized since she was 13(she is 15 right now). i knew about the jw but not very much because a few of my family members(who are now DF) were jw. so i dropped her off to where her parents pick her up. i leave feeling a bit depressed because i seen what they go through.

  a few weeks passed by we still hang out with each other but we never really talk about her religion because i respect her and she respect me as well. one rainy day we were walking after school adn we sort of talked abit about the jw religion. i asked question like "why did you join the religion?", "what made you feel this was right" not so very good question that would take me deep into the religion. she said that she believes everything in the bible ,but i felt the need to question her how and why is everything is true? she just said it all made sense to her but i just looked at her with a questionable look on my face. i didnt want to keep going because i just didnt know enough to really make sense to what i was saying. i was just trying and she just looked at the floor a bit quiet(dont know if that meant anyhting but pretty sure it does).

  to present time now we still talk as strong as ever. nothing has changed. i have visited one of her concert. she met my mom and i met one of her best friends. her parents didnt know who i was and didnt see me talkign to her. really we can see that we trust each other already. we both are not afraid to say what is on our mind. i am what i would call "semi-in love" with this girl. but really if this girl were to leave the religion i would do EVERYTHING i can to make her happy. i would never ever want to see her sad. though who knows

  at one time though a week ago when i started reading many post on here i was determined to help her out from how her religion isnt right.........though a few days ago she showed me a scrapbook of her through her lifetime. pictures of her with her mom and dad, her best friends, etc. as i looked, i looked at the expression on her face in every picture. (if i havent mention before she is an only child). she looked so happy in those pic. with her dad, her best friends everything. then i thought to myself" wow.......she looks so happy." though her book on the last page is her and her dad in brazil smiling. then at top it says "to be continued". lately i have been thinking hard and alot, and i want to ask you the same question i asked myself. do i really want to take her away from all of this? do i really want to take her away from her friends and family? it just seemed so hard. ask yourself the same question. if you cared for someone sooooo much and showed you something that shows how happy they are with their friends and family in the religion do you really want to take that away? shoot if its possible i would try to pull her parents, her, and some of her best friends out of the religion. but i just dont know. please i need your help people. i probably know my answer to my question but i most likely dont. if there is anything question about what else you would like to know about the situation that i didnt input in here please tell me and i will definatly answer right away. i know there is probably alot that you would like to know more from my situation. also if you know any topics of her religion that in a way i can talk to her and make her think a bit. because i know she will think about what i say.

  -xig28
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  averyniceguy

  Welcome to the board! I am sure others can answer your questions. I am bringing this BTTT(Back to the Top)
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  AlmostAtheist

  I don't mean to seem gauche or insensitive, but people are always as happy as they can be in whatever circumstances they find themselves in. If you try, you can find pictures of smiling kids, even though they has distended abdomens from lack of food. The fact that a person is "happy" is meaningless. Are they living up to their potential? THAT's the question. (Or is it? I don't really claim to know.)

  Your friend will probably not respond to factual information you provide for her. Her attachment to her religion is an emotional one, and all the "logic" surrounding it is just window-dressing. I know, because I did it too. There is endless discussion on this board and elsewhere about what it takes to wake a person up to the reality of the false doctrines taught by JW's. There isn't any answer though, because it isn't a fact-based belief. It is a premise-based belief, that being that the Governing Body dispenses what Jehovah expects the flock to accept as "truth". If it turns out not to be true (and only the Governing Body can make that determination), then they change it, and it becomes the new "truth".

  Defeating that premise is the key -- but it's a vicious circle. They say it, and thus it's true. Since it's true, it's true. Unless it's false, and if it were false, they'd tell us. (Head hurting yet?)

  Yes, if she got out of JW's, she'd have a better shot at a "real" life. No, if you stay with her you will probably not have a great relationship. No, she probably won't leave JW's no matter what you say. Yes, you should probably try. :-)

  There is plenty of info here on this site and all over the internet to help you build a case. Your best bet is probably to pick something small and ask her about it. "What's this 'Beth Sarim' place that I heard the Witnesses built?" you might ask her. She probably won't know what you're talking about. Google it, and you'll know. Then you can tell her, and she can ask around and find out what their answer is. (They always have an answer). Then you can ask about some other little point. Then another. Not abrasively, just out of curiosity. You might trigger something in her -- you never know.

  Good luck!

  Dave
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  xig28

  you prove a very good point dave. almost anyone in a picture will look happy. but some can see through the fake happiness in pictures. but hey im the one looking for answers. i will look up on some topic especially the one you brought up as well and see what i can find.

  -xig28
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  Hortensia

  well, if you all hang out together that much, she might be semi-in-love with you, too. But for a JW, that can lead to a hard choice - the loved one or all of one's family and friends. She stands to lose a lot if she pursues a relationship with a non-believer. Just the same, I say don't give up. It's her choice - you or the religion. Don't make the choice for her by backing off from the relationship. Of course, if she chooses the religion over you, you face the possibility of some pain and loss. But as they say it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. Just don't do anything crazy like getting pregnant!!!
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  Pioneer Spit...oh, i mean Spirit

  Hi. Great post. I see where you're coming from, I've thought the same about my situation:

  I want my dad (and mom too maybe) to accept me and for us to be friends but they won't even speak to me because I left the JW religion. I'm 39, the youngest of 5 and we're not getting any younger, right? I could pursue some things that I think my dad might listen to about the JWs, but I have to step back and think like you are. . .he's 72, and how much life does he have left? 10-15 ok years left? I want my daddy, but I know if he left it he'd lose relationship with my mom and the other 3 kids that are in it, and countless friends, he'd lose his whole life's routine which brings him happiness. On the other hand, I won't 'do' the jw thing anymore cause it's an awful, hateful, false cult, and I won't fake it in order to earn my parents' love AND their disowning me is NOT making me want to go back to it.

  I've been (as have others here) a teenager JW with 'worldly' friends, and I'll tell you this about your friend: she's torn between having a boyfriend and not--cause NOT having a boyfriend is the JW rule. You gotta hide what you are to everyone in both your lives and it's hard. Plus, the JWs are totally anti-sex-before-marriage. (they're almost totally anti-sex now that I think about it.) If you were to 'be her first' her parents would be all devastated and she'd have to tell the elders everything she did, everyone would know in her congregation and it would be ugly, they make such a big deal out of it. I'm not trying to make you leave her alone, just want to make sure you get the JWs. They're freaks, total freaks. Everything is bad and naughty, and every bad thing on the news means that 'the end is near'. Sure, their happy in it when it's all they think about.

  You're a kind person to consider her happiness now and future; you rock. Really.
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  Pioneer Spit...oh, i mean Spirit

  I was going also say: She has her whole life ahead of her too, and like others here, she could leave the jws too if she chose. She's responsible for what makes her happy too.

  Keep us posted!
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  xig28

  hello pioneer i appreciate the post you put and it encourage me a bit as well. but i think you mis-took what i said as in "her first" she wants her first love to be her last. which i mean that she wants her first relationship to last until the end, but really that only happens in move(at least in my opinion) its just that i have lost 3 important poeple in my life earlier and i couldnt do anything about because i was just too young and didnt know how. and seeing her in this religion just tares me apart because it isnt good. because sooner or later she will find out, and in a way that is how i want her to know the "real" truth of her religion. liek all young jw they never want to hear the badside of something but thats pretty much everything in everyone. but hey the truth sometimes always hurts us. i just only wished i met her outside of the religion.

  the other day i had an important talk with her about us. we talked about her religion and i asked her if she is really happy where she is. she obviously said "yes" and has gone too far to go back. i really respect her and just want to show her how much she means to me sadley though she thinks though it cant go forward because we both are of different religion. right there i wanted to say something, but i didnt want to upset her in any way. she kept asking me why people keep trying when they know they will never get it. well i think she doesnt get it. were only human we are not perfect we will do whatever it takes and it wont matter how long it will take. its almost as if she wanted me to stop trying but you know what.......after a day of thinking about what she told i feel like trying harder. i will try but at the same time as i mention b4 i dont want to take away what comforts her right now. i just want to show her that there is always someone out there waiting for her. that alone shows that i will never give up.

  you know you have somehow provided me with some hope and not only that i somehow provided myself with some hope as well.thank you!! i will keep you updated on the situation

  -xig28
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  Barbie Doll

  face the possibility of some pain and loss. But as they say it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. Just don't do anything crazy like getting pregnant!!!

  I sure agree with that.
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  Eliveleth

  Dear xig28,

  You sound like a totally awesome young man. Thinking about her happiness is really quite

  unlike most of the young men I have met. My granddaughter's are really wonderful girls, but their

  boy friends seem quite self-centered. I could be wrong.

  I remember being 16 and totally in love. At that age you really think that you cannot love anyone else

  but the one that you are with. But I fell in love with several young men and felt the same way about each one.

  I am not saying that you are not truly in love with this girl, but at your age it is very hard to know. Please

  don't think that I am putting you down!! This is totally not my intention. Stop and think about the implications

  of discrediting her religion in her eyes. What if she

  sees the facts that Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong. At her age, what could she do? She still has

  to live with her parents and they are providing her with the things she needs right now. If she tells

  them that she does not believe that the Watchtower is right, and the elders find out that she feels this

  way they will disfellowship her. This will put a big strain on her relationship with her parents.

  If you really love her and are willing to wait for her until she is 18 and you are able to support her,

  then would be the time to help her see what is wrong with the Watchtower. She will not be harmed by waiting.

  My advice (and it is just that) is just spend time with her, build your friendship and continue as

  you have been. Getting to know one another is really the basis of a good relationship. Find out what you

  have in common, what your mutual interests are. Don't be afraid. Most young people put on a facade to please

  their girlfriend/boyfriend and when they decide to get into a serious relationship/married they find out that the

  other person is a total stranger.

  I will be praying that you keep your relationship as friends until you both are old enough to

  take total responsibility for your lives. You both have a lot to lose if your disrupt your relationship

  with your families. Doing things the right way will earn you her respect.

  I can see your heart is in the right place, I will be praying that God will show you what the right

  thing to do is.

  Love and hugs,

  Gramma Velta