Right on, Derek. Numerous wrongs still don't make a right.
Saudis sentence woman to death for WITCHCRAFT
by stillajwexelder 23 Replies latest social current
-
-
quietlyleaving
funkyderek
Simon:
Yes, thank god Christians have never tried, convicted or killed any witches eh ...
It's not a competition. Everybody knows that Christians used to kill "witches". And there would be outrage if they were doing it today. Which is the whole point. Accusing women of witchcraft is the sort of perverse backwardness that has long since disappeared from Western society. As we cannot change the past, there is little point railing against the horrific actions that took place in medieval Europe, but we can change what is happening right now in Saudi Arabia.
I don't see what point you're trying to make by continually pointing out that Christians were once as backward as Muslims are today. Are you saying that Muslims should be allowed to catch up in their own time? Should we perhaps allow them a crack at the Jews seeing as "we" did it for centuries, right up to a couple of generations ago? Or, do you allow that just maybe, by speaking up against the ridiculous medieval practices of Muslim states, we can help fast-track their journey to enlightenment with a minimum of pain and suffering?
Funkyderek - I just want to make a point that rather than seeing it solely as an enligitenment versus backwardness scenario - there is also the fact that for instance in the west we have police forces that keeps us in check. I'm not sure if I'm being clear here. It may well be that in the west many of the people who are presently instigating the sort of things in Saudi Arabia that we find outragious are either in prison, medicated or awaiting trial. In other words those "medieval christians" are still here with us. So there is a need to bring the past into the picture - we are not as enlightened as we like to think.
I'm not arguing against being outraged or against debating. Just adding my own 2p.
-
stillajwexelder
Yes, thank god Christians have never tried, convicted or killed any witches eh ... That implies it is OK because we have done it in the past. That isa bit like saying 'The USA has used anj atomic bomb against civilians in 1945, so if NYC gets nuked it is no big deal"
-
mkr32208
Here we go again with the moral equivalence argument. This discussion isn't about Christianity so the fact that christianity has been evil in the past (and in fact continues to be evil) has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!
That's like Jeffery Dahmer going into court and saying "I shouldn't be convicted because I killed less people than Albert Fish..." WTF? Who the f%ck CARES! Your still an evil little git and you deserve a pipe to the head!
Same here! SO WHAT that Xians are evil TOO how is that an excuse?
For the record; a couple dozen Christians are still killed every year in exorcisms gone bad so they aren't exactly as lily white as they claim either....
-
funkyderek
quietlyleaving:
Funkyderek - I just want to make a point that rather than seeing it solely as an enligitenment versus backwardness scenario - there is also the fact that for instance in the west we have police forces that keeps us in check.
The existence of such a police force sworn to uphold laws protecting human rights is an important part of an enlightened society. Some backward societies instead base their laws on ancient scribblings, with little regard for human life or welfare.
I'm not sure if I'm being clear here. It may well be that in the west many of the people who are presently instigating the sort of things in Saudi Arabia that we find outragious are either in prison, medicated or awaiting trial. In other words those "medieval christians" are still here with us. So there is a need to bring the past into the picture - we are not as enlightened as we like to think.
There will always be crazy people who accuse their neighbours of witchcraft. Doing so in a modern enlightened society will get you the medical treatment you need to overcome such a delusion. Doing so in a backward society like Saudi Arabia is likely to get the accused person arrested and punished for the absurd crime of being a witch.
Quite simply, there are good and bad people in all cultures, but our culture is better than theirs. A society where human rights are respected is better than one where they are not. A society where calling someone a witch will provoke laughs of derision is better than one where it could leads to an innocent woman getting flogged or stoned. Our culture is better than theirs because we used to be like them but we grew out of it. We need them to catch up with us.
-
Mary
In Falih's case, the judges who convicted her in April 2006 relied on a coerced confession and on the statements of witnesses who said she had "bewitched" them, according to the group. Falih retracted her confession in court, claiming it was extracted under duress, and said that as an illiterate woman, she did not understand the document she was forced to fingerprint..........The Saudi court cited an instance in which a man allegedly became impotent after being bewitched by Falih, the rights group said.
So they're going to execute a woman because a man couldn't get it up for her? That's a new one, even by Islamic standards. I'm not a doctor or a witch (although I'm sure some would disagree ), but I'm guessing that maybe this guys' problem was a little thing called Erectile Dysfunction, and not because of being 'bewitched' by this woman. Perhaps if someone sent him some Viagra and a copy of Playboy before they execute an innocent woman, they could perhaps see that there is nothing 'supernatural' about the whole event.
Yes Christians did the same thing in the past and with the same lack of evidence. The point is: We don't do that anymore. Can you imagine the public outcry if a court in Canada or the USA or anywhere in Europe were to try and execute a woman for something this ridiculous?
An appeals court ruled in September 2006 that Falih could not be sentenced to death for witchcraft because she had retracted her confession. But a lower court subsequently reissued the death sentence for the benefit of "public interest" and to "protect the creed, souls and property of this country," the group's statement said.
What horseshit. Do these idiots who actually believe this stuff not stop to consider that if this woman was a witch with supernatural powers, she could just disappear or smite all her enemies? Unbelievable that this sort of crap is still going on anywhere in the world.
-
BurnTheShips
What horseshit. Do these idiots who actually believe this stuff not stop to consider that if this woman was a witch with supernatural powers, she could just disappear or smite all her enemies?
Geez! Dontcha know! When you bury a witch she loses ALL of her magic! Then you can start stoning.
-
ButtLight
Why doesnt she just jump on her broom and fly away like this witch?
-
quietlyleaving
funkyderek
quietlyleaving:
Funkyderek - I just want to make a point that rather than seeing it solely as an enligitenment versus backwardness scenario - there is also the fact that for instance in the west we have police forces that keeps us in check.
The existence of such a police force sworn to uphold laws protecting human rights is an important part of an enlightened society. Some backward societies instead base their laws on ancient scribblings, with little regard for human life or welfare.
hmm -- I see technology as boosting the amount of free time ordinary folk have in the west, for instance, allowing them the time to engage in political thought and activity. Once technology becomes established in countries where it hasn't happened yet, more ordinary people as opposed to religious fanatics and rich privileged classes will have the time to start having a say in rulership and government. Then they too will be able to make the necessary changes and call themselves "an enlightened society".
-
Mary
Once technology becomes established in countries where it hasn't happened yet, more ordinary people as opposed to religious fanatics and rich privileged classes will have the time to start having a say in rulership and government. Then they too will be able to make the necessary changes and call themselves "an enlightened society".
You don't need the internet to figure out that executing a woman for "witchcraft" (when there is absolutely no evidence), is utterly ridiculous. But you're partly right: The ruling classes in many of the Islamic countries do what the WTS likes to do (although on a much larger scale): Keep the people down, uneducated and afraid and you'll keep them paranoid, afraid to speak out and suspicious of everyone outside their world.
And this is the problem with Islamic society today. They most certainly do not want the average citizen to "have a say" in anything. Islam is ruled by a Theocracy, not a Democracy and that's the way those in power want to keep it.
What saved that Muslim woman who, a few weeks ago, was facing 200 lashes for being gang raped---Oh pardon me, I mean for being in the company of men who were not of her immediate family? It was the public outcry from Human Rights groups and other free countries around the world, certainly not from the Muslim community. Why was this? Probably in part because many Muslims would be afraid to, lest they get the same punishment, partly because they have been taught from birth that this sort of punishment is a-okay. As long as the average person is kept stirred up with the "us-vs-them" mentality, and trained that they and they alone are approved by the Almighty and told not to believe anything beyond what their leaders tell them to believe, we're going to continue to see crap like this in the news.
As with the WTS, the best thing we in the free world can continue to do, is to keep exposing the disgusting practices that are going on, whether it be in Islam or the WTS.
