Blowing "BLOODGUILT" out of the water. Logically.

by Open mind 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Open mind

  drew sagan:

  God will save those worth saving and that if you allow yourself to be used then you will be rewarded but if you don't let yourself be used then you will be blood guilty.

  Well you called it right by saying it's a "circle of madness" Drew. I know you're just being Devil's advocate, but let me tear that sentence apart just for practice.

  "God will save those worth saving".

  Many JWs, my wife included, salve their consciences with this idea and use it to convince themselves that the actual Armageddon death toll will be far less than 6 billion. But, if it's true that Jehovah will save lots of people with good hearts, then the "life saving" aspect of the preaching work, along with it's grim partner, "bloodguilt", have to go. Now I will still get destroyed for DISOBEDIENCE, but you can't logically go throwing "bloodguilt" in on top of my other capital offenses. Bloodguilt has no real meaning in this context.

  This brings up another question relating to what Jesus said about "stumbling" a little one. Don't dare "stumble" a "little one" or you might as well have a millstone hung around your neck and be pitched into the sea.

  In Watchtower theology, death is death. If we had some hellfire and purgatory then the threats re: bloodguilt & stumbling might carry a little more weight. As it is, the poor slob semi-faithful "social" JW who doesn't quite take his ministry seriously enough gets the same sentence (eternal nonexistence) as a full-bore, fire breathing, baby-eating apostate.

  In a nutshell, for any Bible believers, how does Jesus statement re: stumbling & millstones make any sense if there's no fiery hell?

  OM
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  still_in74

  They are moving into a time when their members are going to be a lot less excited and a lot more every day. Field Service is a reminder of where they used to be, not where they are going.

  but we have more pioneers ! (only 50 & 70 hours now instead of 60 & 90)

  we have more studies ! (door step studies count first time if read 1 paragraph from book/brochure at RV)

  We have more publishers (elderly can count only 15 minutes per month to not be inactive)

  Ever noticed how almost no one gets DF'd anymore? I know people that have had multiple affairs and no DF. I also know people who 15 years ago smoked 1 cigarette and got DF'd.
  I guess you have to do what you can to keep the numbers looking good eh?
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  snowbird

  I spent many a sleepless night over that "bloodguilty" thing until I began to think for myself.

  For instance, how can a few minutes of reading a certain scripture or presenting the view of a certain magazine qualify as a warning of impending doom?

  What if a person just doesn't want to be bothered at a given time? Does that mean all is lost?

  Since most people we visit have Bibles, why can't they simply read it for themselves?

  These and many other questions tormented me until I walked away from the JW's. Now, I sleep much better.

  Sylvia
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  Open mind

  still_in74:

  Good points. JWs are fluffing the numbers. Hold on.

  I thought only the Catholics did that?

  snowbird:

  how can a few minutes of reading a certain scripture or presenting the view of a certain magazine qualify as a warning of impending doom?

  I've been thinking about changing my presentation from the "Direct Approach" (tm) to the

  BECOME-A-JW-OR-DIE!!! Approach.

  Can you imagine if JWs started sharing this little gem that Blondie posted the other day from door-to-door?

  “ Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the " great crowd, " as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hopeof surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. ” September 1, 1989 Watchtower page 19.

  Which do you think would get the faster door slam?

  OM
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  snowbird

  Which do you think would get the faster door slam?

  OM

  Heeheehee!!! The WTS knows this; that's why they recommend the sneaky approach.

  How unlike the prophets of ancient Israel who didn't bite their tongues.

  Sylvia
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  kurtbethel

  Yes, who is it that slave that the Master finds bloodguilty?
  
  If you taught people a doctrine that getting an organ transplant was a sin, and allowed people to die for 13 years until you taught them something different, you would have bloodguilt for all those people who died.
  
  If you convinced people that they could not accept a blood transfusion, and insisted that scripture taught this even though it does not, and thousands of people died from not getting transfusions, you would have bloodguilt for causing the death of all those people.
  
  If you told people that using tobacco was a sin, and it really was a sin, but you withheld that information for nearly a century while other religions pointed that out, and the people who trusted you died in sin unto eternal condemnation, then their eternal destruction would bring bloodguilt on you.
  
  Who is bloodguilty now?
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  WTWizard

  The whole argument is specious. People are going to die because I was only going 140 instead of 160 to the territory? Or they are going to die because I was unwilling to stay out until past midnight? I don't think so--I can research the religion online without getting involved these days, and so can most of those people that I "murdered" by not killing myself to go a little faster while out in field circus.

  Now, I feel bloodguilty to a degree. But not the way the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger wants me to. You see, I spent close to 20 years preaching that their religions were all wrong, that they were going to die unless they worship the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger in lieu of Jesus. Those that joined as a result of my activity had their lives ruined, some to a greater extent than others, by the doctrines. Children born into that family had their lives totally trashed, all because of my preaching. That to me is where I bear all the bloodguilt. Also, teachings that caused people to die from the blood issue, while out in field circus, or from persecution.

  I think I will take the "bloodguilt" from not reaching that extra person, especially now that they have the resources to check things out for themselves and then join if they are interested.
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  still_in74

  Now, I feel bloodguilty to a degree... Those that joined as a result of my activity had their lives ruined, some to a greater extent than others, by the doctrines.

  I brought a man into the "truth", within 2 years his wife left him and took the kids in a bitter divorce. This man became a very good friend of mine, when I think now what his life would be like had I never "called" on him it makes me feel ill.