Is This a Universal Characteristic of Religion?

by hamilcarr 26 Replies latest jw friends

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  VoidEater

  Thank you all for commenting on my commenting (Burn, for example ;-) )...I would have changed one word, and that was nicely picked up on by myelaine:

  the "law" is a hedge around a certain people group...this group adhereing to the "law giver" has been given an inheritance...this inheritance is given freely.

  A better word I should have used (rather than "unconditionally") in regards to Christian salvation would perhaps be "undeservedly". There seems to me to be a qualitative difference with Christian salvation in that it is often related to an "undeserved" granting, which works into the concept of "grace", and say the law-based Judaic salvation which is "earned" through following the law. The law itself is freely given (any may adopt it through "conversion"), but it must be followed to effect salvation. I'm not sure the concept (or experience) of grace, the giving of salvation to the unworthy, is readily available or espoused beyong Christianity. In some of the more pointed evangelical Christian groups, the phrase "once saved, always saved" points to what I'm trying to talk about here - accepting Christ (a trigger event) grants salvation via grace, as opposed to a life-long adherence to a law "earning" (if you will) salvation.
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  VoidEater

  Budda: A nicely succinct expression. This description pretty much matches my personal views. When I experience "salvation" through "grace", I have taken it to mean I have achieved a sense of disentanglement, a dropping of attachments, and all that is left is the unadulterated experience of Being.

  In my daily life, I still enjoy the passions of being a human (at least the ones I like ;-) ) and am aware when I "choose" to allow attachment to form. I have not achieved the perfect balance of dispassion with engagement, I find passion engages me - and therefore I do suffer on occasion. I feel the sense of loss, and accept it as a part of my current nature.

  Cheers -Void
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  VoidEater

  WorldTravller says:

  Just wondering if the main reason for our existence is to suffer, then what's the point of being here? Suffering is common, but what for?

  I'm not sure that the main reason for our existance is to suffer (though some might say this is true, and it is to teach us the need for God's grace, or to follow law, or to work to make things better). I think we can make suffering into what we need it to be - whether we need a reason to feel bad, or a reason to respond... Myself, I see suffering as a feedback mechanism, much like touching a hot stove results in a burning sensation. Suffering may give us insight into others, and therefore teach us something about empathy; or it may just teach us about the things we prize and how we fear their loss. I think it is a Buddhist thought, mostly, that tells us that while pain is a part of any physical existance, suffering (as result of clinging to how we wish things to be different, or focusing over much on the pain) may be optional.
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  myelaine

  dear hamilcarr...

  well...I didn't say that it was a deception to show people reality did I?

  I said that people were deceived into embracing the temporal...and by that I mean, putting too much emphasis on the material...people are important, lotsa stuff isn't. But it goes deeper than that, There are people that are so committed to their pet, for example, that they will provide in their will that the pet is cared for in a lavish style above and beyond the average American family. Now one might argue that it is a beloved pet and it is their money to do with what they want...but that just proves my point, really...where are that persons priorities?

  love michelle
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  are there any atheists who believe mankind is in need of salvation and if so why don't you believe?

  I have not read any other replies here, so I can give my fresh opinion before enjoying
  what others had to say.

  I lean toward nonbelief, but am not dogmatic that you need to be on my side.
  I do believe that the majority of mankind needs salvation (to be saved) from
  those that mislead them. A shrinking majority are misled by some kind of
  religious leaders and/or notions. A growing majority are misled by political
  leaders and/or notions.

  Whatever saves mankind will enslave it in a different way. Example: as people
  reject religion, they allow politicians to enslave them. As people realize that
  politicians are enslaving them, they let OTHER politicians enslave them. All
  the while, government spending is enslaving them more and more. If they put
  any stop to the government spending, they will have freedom of sorts, but also
  anarchy of sorts. There is no easy solution.

  But salvation from false religious promises would free up a bunch of hardworking
  volunteers (not just JW's in field circus, but nuns and priests and others that
  go on spiritual missions and such) to go build houses for earthquake/flood victims
  and feed the hungry. I know that some religious ones do a good job of this, but
  imagine not wasting money on the church and the salary of the preachers.
  Salvation from false religion would free up money to pay those taxes that enslave
  people. They could start examining politics when they stop putting their hopes
  in religion, and end some of the nonsense in government. Or they might make
  things worse. But salvation would still be a good thing.
• 

  hamilcarr

  hi michelle,

  so, if the deceiving is about ignoring the eternal and not about embracing the temporal i'm with you ... I fully understand your funny pet example :-))

  h.
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  free2beme

  RELIGION - CONTROL, COMMAND, POLITICS.

  REALITY - You have the right to believe what fits you and not feel guilty about it.

  RELIGION + REALITY = CULTURAL GUILT