A few nights ago, Mrs. Ghost and I joined her family for a nice dinner on the occasion of her parents' anniversary. They are all witnesses and decent folks--not elders or "big shots," but as far as I can tell they all buy into the JW stuff.
It was a pleasant evening, with a lot of reminiscing on the part of the in-laws. Father-in-law mentioned some events around 1975 (he was a JW at the time), and that brought on a little discussion re: 1975. I tried not to say anything on this subject, but then the in-laws started spouting the party line that the Society never predicted anything for 1975 and those that were stumbled as a result were not serious about the truth. At this point, I had to mention that I've done some research on the Society's writings re: 1975, and there are some very strong statements, but that they're cleverly worded in order not to be an absolute prediction. I also noted that the Society appeared to have learned its lesson from 1914, 1925, etc. This led to a brief, yet candid, discussion regarding the Society's history of date-setting.
Then someone mentioned the "generation" teaching. There appeared to be some confusion among those at the table over the "current light" regarding this teaching. So, I went into a brief "Generations in a Nutshell" spiel for them. I noted the 3 main stages of the doctrine's evolution: (1) pre-1995: those who saw the events of 1914; (2) 1995-2008: wicked people who see the sign; (3) 2008: the anointed remnant who see the sign.
Then, I felt compelled to add that this means we could all be dead before the end comes. This led to some discussion regarding whether the preaching work would reach certain lands (e.g., China, much of India, the Muslim world) before the end. A sister-in-law brought up Matt. 10:23 ("you will by no means complete the circuit of the cities . . .") as proof that not every person needs to be reached with the kingdom message. So, my response was "so, at Armageddon, will Jehovah destroy all those people who have never heard of JWs?" She said "no, he and Jesus will read their hearts." My response was, "so, why do we need to preach at all, if Jehovah and JC are going to read their hearts at Armageddon anyway?" (I think this is the point at which she called me an apostate.)
Someone mentioned that the real purpose of the preaching work was to see if we would prove faithful by doing it. I said, "so, are you saying that it's just busy-work?" I politely pressed him on that and he basically admitted that it was.
Then my wife wisely directed the conversation elsewhere.
So, I opened my big mouth and my sister-in-law called me an apostate . . .
by Olin Moyles Ghost 18 Replies latest jw friends
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Olin Moyles Ghost
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loosie
it's like having an arguement when you are in third grade. When you can't refute what the other kid says you call them a poopy head or in this case an apostate.
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blondie
*** w00 1/15 p. 13 par. 17 "Keep on the Watch" ***
Fifth,
weseeaglobalpreachingworkbeingaccomplished,whichJesussaidwouldtakeplacejustbeforetheendofthissystem. Jesus stated: "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." (Matthew 24:14) Today, that prophecy is in the course of fulfillment on an unprecedented scale. True, untouched territories still exist, and it may be that in Jehovah’s due time, a large door leading to greater activity will open. (1 Corinthians 16:9) Nevertheless, the Bible does not state that Jehovah will wait until every individual on earth has received a personal witness. Rather, the good news must be preached to Jehovah’s satisfaction. Then the end will come.—Compare Matthew 10:23.*** w97 8/15 p. 14 par. 11 Living for Today or for an Eternal Future? ***Still, Jesus’ words recorded at Matthew 10:23 are sobering: "You will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of Israel until the Son of man arrives." While the good news will surely be announced throughout the earth, we will not in person reach all parts of the earth with the Kingdom message before Jesus "arrives" as Executioner.
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Anti-Christ
it's like having an arguement when you are in third grade. When you can't refute what the other kid says you call them a poopy head or in this case an apostate.
I answer back when someone calls me an apostate, " Is that your argument to prove that what I said was not true?", 'be careful you can be accused of slander" or " I thought that Jesus said that your are not supposed to judge your fellow human". I find it very frustrating to have any kind of discussion with a firm believer of the WT.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Loosie: I think she called me a poopy-head, too. Seriously, though, I wish witnesses would just step back and think about what they are saying. Witnesses criticize people in the territory for not critically examining their religious beliefs. Unfortunately, many (most? all?) witnesses are guilty of the same thing. They are blinded; it's 2 Cor. 4:4 in action.
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cognac
(1) pre-1995: those who saw the events of 1914; (2) 1995-2008: wicked people who see the sign; (3) 2008: the anointed remnant who see the sign.
What??? I new # 1, but I'm not sure about #2 - I thought that the generation change was saying that generation was a period of time instead of a persons lifetime... #3 - I have no idea???
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wha happened?
I hear ya. When the topic comes up it's really hard keeping it under wraps. I've had a few close calls on this.
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VM44
"Someone mentioned that the real purpose of the preaching work was to see if we would prove faithful by doing it."
Where in the Bible is THAT taught?
Sounds like someone is holding to their very own Apostate Belief!
Also, I am tired of hearing the JWs say that The Watchtower didn't promote the belief that Armageddon had to take place before 1975. They did so indeed. Anyone that was among the JWs in the early '70's knows that The Watchtower did indeed put pressure on the Witnesses as the time left was "reduced", only a matter of months, not years, were left before Armageddon.
To say that The Watchtower didn't publish a statement specifically stating "Armageddon before 1975" is misleading in the extreme.
Of course, the JWs only believe what they want to believe and will change the "Facts" to suit their own self-made "Truth".
The Watchtower and the JWs hold to these following two statement:
(1) The Watchtower is always "right", even when "wrong"!
(2) The World is always "wrong" even when they are "right"!
--VM44
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Cognac: Keeping up with WTS doctrinal flip-flops is confusing, isn't it? To rank-and-file JWs, the most important part of the 1995 new light on the generation was that it was no longer tied to 1914.
The 11/1/95 Watchtower on page 19, para. 12 defines the generation this way: "Therefore, in the final fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy today, “this generation” apparently refers to the peoples of earth who see the sign of Christ’s presence but fail to mend their ways." So, "this generation" meant wicked people in the last days...at least from 1995-2008. As has been discussed ad nauseum on this board, there is a study article in the February WT that changes the doctrine again. Good times.
P.S., on a personal note, I enjoy reading your posts. Keep up the good work with Mr. Cognac. -
VM44
There also was much discussion among the JWs about at what age a person would be "knowledgable" so they would recognize the events taking place in 1914.
The JWs no longer ask such questions among themselves.
--VM44