JWs: Biggest Turnover Rate of Members! "Masked churn" rate of 2/3rds!! (page 7)

Sirona

These figures don't surprise me at all. They are still relevant if those polled were never baptised - since I presume they only included those who were raised by witness parents.

Warlock:

Everyone agrees that taking a representative sample is going to be subject to a small margin of error. HOWEVER this is how all research is done!

When something is proven scientifically, the scientists take SAMPLES of the population to test. It is accepted that given a large enough sample of appropriately random participants (varying ages and sexes) then you can apply the result to society as a whole, albeit with a small margin of error.

Its impossible to measure the entire population every time we want to measure something.

Sirona

Open mind

I mentioned this survey to my oldest teen. Specifically that the JW's have the worst retention rate in the US.

My teen's reply:

"Well I guess that makes sense. Didn't Jesus say that only a few would be on the narrow road to life?"

I had no words. I really thought I was making headway with this one.

OM

BizzyBee

"American individualism in religion puts pressure on churches to change in ways that can make traditionalists uncomfortable. There is something disquieting about shopping for religion the way one would pick among lattes at Starbucks. But having options makes believers comfortable, not trapped, in their faith. It promotes intellectual exploration and unleashes creativity and outreach, typified by successful megachurches."

~USA Today Editorial

Off the top, religion serves either to comfort us in our journey through this vale of tears, or to save us from God's wrath, or both.

In the first instance, believing that there is a God who cares for us in this life and beyond can be solace for many.

In the second instance, it seems that if we can just get the doctrines right, God will spare us from destruction, and maybe even reward us.

If one believes more in the comfort and solace view, then why not pick and choose which religion delivers the best feel-good?

If one subscribes to the guessing game of 'which religion does God personally favor,' life can be very uncomfortable. (Which is where JWs come in.)

Vinny

Open Mind said:...

"I mentioned this survey to my oldest teen. Specifically that the JW's have the worst retention rate in the US.

My teen's reply:

"Well I guess that makes sense. Didn't Jesus say that only a few would be on the narrow road to life?"

I had no words. I really thought I was making headway with this one.

Proverbs 22: 6 says, "Train up a boy according to the way for him; even when he grows old he will not turn aside from it."

Yet far more JW's are LEAVING that staying put. Something wrong with this picture?

Wonder if all the False predictions, medical blunders, doctrinal flip-flops and blinking light, self righteous and arrogant titles and claims ("we is God's people"), condemning ALL non-JW's to total annihilation, the unscriptural use of shunning to keep JW's towing the line in fear etc etc have something to do with why so many leave?

I bet he'll have a hard time replying then.

Whoops forgot, he could always go with the generic, "APOSTATE, APOSTATE" tag then...

But at least you tried. Tip of the hat for that.

Warlock

Warlock:
Everyone agrees that taking a representative sample is going to be subject to a small margin of error. HOWEVER this is how all research is done!
When something is proven scientifically, the scientists take SAMPLES of the population to test. It is accepted that given a large enough sample of appropriately random participants (varying ages and sexes) then you can apply the result to society as a whole, albeit with a small margin of error.
Its impossible to measure the entire population every time we want to measure something.

Sirona,

Thank you for being the one to FINALLY bring up "the point", without me having to.

I am very well aware how polls, surveys etc. are done, in spite all the personal insults trying to indicate otherwise.

Well, how about looking at that method in another way, namely "independent thinking", exactly what many here say they have developed since they left the WTS.

The study by PEW, as I said previously, takes their "sample" and then paints a picture, with a very broad brush, that this applies to the American public.

The most accurate statement, WITHOUT misleading, or "brainwashing", which, by the way is another buzzword that some here like to say they are no longer susceptible to, since leaving the WTS, would be "of those Americans PARTICIPATING in this survey............."

In any survey, or poll, taking a small sample only PROVES THE THOUGHTS OF THOSE PARTICIPATING.

For the simple reason that the entire population CANNOT be polled, as you brought out, automatically make the results suspect, WHEN APPLIED TO THE WHOLE.

Warlock

wednesday

4mylove started a thread about a related topic last night. She saw The View and co host sherry talks about why she left jws. It was very good and worth watching Sherry says that they DF her father and then told her not to talk to him. she said more of less they were hypocrites. they talk about this survey .

http://abc.go.com/daytime/theview/index

on the left side of page, click on losing your religion part 2.

thanks to 4mylove

BizzyBee

Forgive me if I misunderstand, Warlock, but you seem to be scoffing at this survey and the validity of its findings.

So it begs the question: Do you find the percentages to be inconsistent with your personal experience of JWs? Do you feel that there is a bias in the way that the survey was done? Do you feel that the information it presents is worthless?

Just curious..............

daniel-p

Sirona,
Thank you for being the one to FINALLY bring up "the point", without me having to.
I am very well aware how polls, surveys etc. are done, in spite all the personal insults trying to indicate otherwise.
Well, how about looking at that method in another way, namely "independent thinking", exactly what many here say they have developed since they left the WTS.
The study by PEW, as I said previously, takes their "sample" and then paints a picture, with a very broad brush, that this applies to the American public.
The most accurate statement, WITHOUT misleading, or "brainwashing", which, by the way is another buzzword that some here like to say they are no longer susceptible to, since leaving the WTS, would be "of those Americans PARTICIPATING in this survey............."
In any survey, or poll, taking a small sample only PROVES THE THOUGHTS OF THOSE PARTICIPATING.
For the simple reason that the entire population CANNOT be polled, as you brought out, automatically make the results suspect, WHEN APPLIED TO THE WHOLE.
Warlock

Warlock, I think you're trying to enlighten us on something that we already understand. No one here was duped into believing that this survey was meant to represent in an absolute sense the entire American population. You think that we've all been duped because we're using this survey's results to paint a picture about the JWs as a whole, when that's what scientific surveys are meant to be used for in the first place. When I say "90% of JWs are brainwashed" I don't mean that literally 90% of JWs are brainwashed, but that based on the results of a scientifically administered survey that is accurately representative of the whole, 90% could be said to be brainwashed. This is a given, and assumed by people familiar with the process, of which, you have shown yourself to not be.

How in the world did you think you could scoff at this basic premise in a public forum and get away without making a complete ass of yourself? You've done it. And nothing you can say now will back track. I don't think you're a complete fool because of you're incapability of understanding these concepts, but because you try so hard to make it look like you do, while defending your retarded logic all at the same time.

steve2

A survey of the entire population is called a census. A survey of a representative sampling of the entire population is referred to as a sample. No one pretends a sample is an exact measure. Nonetheless, political polls close to an election, based on representative sampling, are often within plus or minus 5 percentage points of the outcome on election day.

An earlier poster said that JW participants might not provide accurate information. That's true of any group approached to participate. Equally, however, even during a census, people may provide inaccurate information.

What we do find in surveys, though, are clear trends of growth, decline or stagnation. What is interesting about the findings in the American sample is how well it seems to mirror what people themselves have observed: The extremely high turnover rate among JWs in western countries. We can argue all we like about exactly how accurate the sample findings are, but the general trend of the findings fits people's own observations.

Warlock

Thank you for your responses to my comments.

Warlock

JWs: Biggest Turnover Rate of Members! "Masked churn" rate of 2/3rds!!

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