Ninja, I couldn't agree more...
Cas
Coincidences....
by hillary_step 45 Replies latest jw friends
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Sirona
Dion Fortune said
"Students must accept the absolute rule of the law: that nothing is accidental, fortuitous or incidental" (from memory, I think these are her exact words from "Training and Work of an Initiate"
I agree with her. I don't think that coincidences are meaningless. I don't think things "just happen"
Sirona
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Awakened07
As Oprah says: "There are no coincidences".
So, 'the Universe'/God/whatever evidently saw it necessary to bring about a miracle in order to make hillary_step aware of the fact that there is a musician called John Leslie.
If there is no such thing as coincidences, then there is no such thing as free will.
(as an example) I came up to a branching point in the road while I was out walking, and in the opposite direction of where I originally was going to go, I coincidentally saw an old friend I hadn't seen for years, but had had a dream about the previous night, so instead of going in the direction I had planned, I went to meet my friend, and after the encounter took that road instead. It was also a coincidence that that friend walked instead of driving that day. So it was a coincidence that we met, and a following coincidence that I went another route. One can then extrapolate and say that I was later mugged, and that was a coincidence because it hadn't happened if I hadn't met my friend (because I would then have taken the originally planned route).
If there are no such things as coincidences, these things had to happen. If they had to happen; were meant to happen, then I have no free will. One could say that yes, I could choosenot to meet my friend, even when I saw him/her, and keep going in the direction I had planned. But what then if some unlikely events happened as a consequence of that? If I couldn't avoid those coincidences, then to meet my friend was never available as a choice for me. If this is not true, then I'm too stupid to understand how these things work, and need some help here. Perhaps I shouldn't ponder these kinds of things when I'm as tired as I am now.
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Sirona
If there is no such thing as coincidences, then there is no such thing as free will.
I don't agree.
We always have choices to make and I think that things happen as a result of those choices. Therefore, a seeming "coincidence" may happen as a result of our previous choices.
The initial example in this thread. This only happened because decisions were made beforehand (to sort the mail etc.) but it resulted in this thread and discussion and had a ripple effect on others. Rather than saying such a coincidence was meaningless, one could just as easily say that it resulted in a fair number of individuals having a discussion on the subject
I know it is controversial, but my opinion is that good things come to us when we're ready for them and when we are spiritually in a place to accept them. Bad things are part of life and I believe the major negative events in our lives are decided before our current incarnation. Just my ideas of course.
The so called "small" bad things which befall us, I think they relate to our own decisions / actions / attitude in some way.
Sirona
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Awakened07
I don't agree.
We always have choices to make and I think that things happen as a result of those choices. Therefore, a seeming "coincidence" may happen as a result of our previous choices.
The initial example in this thread. This only happened because decisions were made beforehand (to sort the mail etc.) but it resulted in this thread and discussion and had a ripple effect on others. Rather than saying such a coincidence was meaningless, one could just as easily say that it resulted in a fair number of individuals having a discussion on the subject
So... "actions have consequences". I don't think we (can) disagree there. Can it lead to something good or bad? You bet. Is it guided by some intelligent force? Then we have no choice. The final outcome must be what the intelligent force planned for, and although that point could be reached via various routes, once it happens we had to experience it (and perform the actions leading up to it).
IMO.
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journey-on
My experiences have shown me that very unusual coincidences are somewhat like dreams. The symbolisms contained
within the experience are like dream symbolisms. Some are very personal to you only and are represented by those things
that have meaning only to you. For instance, Hillary_Step's coincidence involved a person's name (Sir John Leslie). Hillary_S provided the
clue as to what this name represents to him: musical incompetence. So, to me, there is a personal message perhaps from your
sub-conscious (or perhaps from something else) giving you insight into something important to you only.
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Sirona
Is it guided by some intelligent force? Then we have no choice.
Ah! here is where we have misunderstood each other, I suspect.
I don't believe it is an intelligent force. I believe that these consequences are natural. However, I think that forces - ripples (for want of a better word) are more far reaching than is scientifically accepted at this time.
Therefore, I do believe that one's personal attitude and belief system can affect nearly everything in one's life. For instance, prosperity relates to the individual's ability to accept it in their life. I don't think this purely relates to their actions (as you suggested - someone's attitude affects their actions which subsequently affects their success/ failure) I think it also relates to spiritual forces which work to attract to us that which we are ready for. These "forces" are not intelligent, they simply are attracted to similar energies (like attracts like - which is a precept in magic).
In short, I think we spiritually attract things to ourselves. The coincidences are not caused by an intelligent being or force, just a force which is natural and not much understood.
IMO!
Sirona
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journey-on
I think it also relates to spiritual forces which work to attract to us that which we are ready for.
This goes along with the adage that "when the student is ready, the Teacher will appear."
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Awakened07
I'll meet you somewhat half-way and say that if a mind boggling unlikely string of events happens, and it has an emotional impact on you, you shouldn't just brush it aside as nothing and be stone cold about it. Even if it doesn't really come from a supernatural source, it may very well be good to reflect on whatever it may be that happened. For instance, you may have lost a loved one several years ago, and then one day, after having dreamt of this person, as you're cleaning the living-room you happen to find a pendant or ring that belonged to that person. Anyone experiencing that would/should have some kind of emotional response to that I think, even an evil atheist ().
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hillary_step
Awakened,
So, 'the Universe'/God/whatever evidently saw it necessary to bring about a miracle in order to make hillary_step aware of the fact that there is a musician called John Leslie.
Problem is, that as I had read the letter before God, I already knew this.
Narkissos,
Is this another coincidence? Probably not. I am reading "Analytische Psychologie und Erziehung" in the German language. I am doing so, not out of a misplaced masochistic sentiment, but because I understand that taxing ones brain staves off the onset of senility. My wife of course, seeing the book on my night-stand, has interpreted this not as a weapon against senility but an admission to it, as my German is grim.
Everybody Else,
Good grief, now there are some very crummy coincidences that you relate above. Not even on a marking scale.
How about this one:
I worked for a company in North America in the mid 70's which was, to say the least, filled with eccentrics. On my left was a person who played Water Polo for his nation, on my right a professional softball player called John L. They both thought me quite insane, but I was not the one who drove a car with the left-hand passenger door missing some of the time, or rode a bicycle whose tires were painted bright red.
I left the employ of this company and went back to the UK. Three years onwards. I needed to get to Heathrow to meet a friend flying in from Italy and due to my having drunk a lunch, I had to get off the tube half way through my journey to facilitate an honorable discharge. This made me very late of course and I had to transfer to trains way off my schedule.
As I settled in a compartment of a very busy train, I looked above my newspaper at the person looking at me above their newspaper, and who should it be? Well, John L. the softball picther that I had worked with years before, who was travelling on a training tour in the UK.
HS