WT Comments (2/25 RESPONDING) FEATURING AK-JEFF

by V 28 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • blondie
    blondie

    Paragraph 7

    If God "has appointed Jesus as Judge; hence, we do not have the right to judge anybody."

    How they do the elders have the right to judge and how does the WTS have the right to make this statement:

    *** w89 9/1 p. 19 par. 7 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium ***Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. (Revelation 7:9-17; 2 Corinthians 4:4) They will make up the "flesh" that Jesus Christ said would be saved through the worst tribulation of all human history.

    Paragraph 8

    Servants of Jehovah - rather than Christians?

    Paragraph 9

    "become true Christians" = become jws as they are the only true Christians per the WTS

    *** w53 9/15 p. 555 Creating Counterfeit Christianity ***Counterfeit Christians are spectators. Genuine Christians are a "theatrical spectacle to the world" because they preach, not watch. Paul invited all to imitate him as such. (1 Cor. 4:9, 16, NW) Therefore the genuine worship of Jehovah cannot be a "balcony religion," where worshipers watch and observe while someone else does the work. But every genuine Christian must boldly play his part as a preacher of the good news while the scene of this old world still remains, "for the scene of this world is changing" and will pass away at Armageddon.—1 Cor. 7:31; 1 John 2:17, NW.

    This "change of scenes" means a new world is near. (2 Pet. 3:13) Who will live to see it? Only true Christians. Imitation Christians may flourish, yes, but only until Armageddon. Of the wheat (true Christians) and weeds (imitations) Jesus said: "Let both grow together until the harvest." "The harvest is a consummation of a system of things, and the reapers are angels." (Matt. 13:30, 39, NW) The crop of "weeds" that Christendom has raised under its unscriptural clergy and laity system will be cast into the fiery furnace of destruction at Armageddon. And hurled into the abyss of death will be that chief counterfeiter, that sham sovereign, Satan the Devil. (Rev. 20:1-3)

    Does the WTS teach that they must preach to ALL?

    *** w00 1/15 p. 13 par. 17 "Keep on the Watch" ***

    Fifth,
    weseeaglobalpreachingworkbeingaccomplished,whichJesussaidwouldtakeplacejustbeforetheendofthissystem. Jesus stated: "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." (Matthew 24:14) Today, that prophecy is in the course of fulfillment on an unprecedented scale. True, untouched territories still exist, and it may be that in Jehovah’s due time, a large door leading to greater activity will open. (1 Corinthians 16:9) Nevertheless, the Bible does not state that Jehovah will wait until every individual on earth has received a personal witness. Rather, the good news must be preached to Jehovah’s satisfaction. Then the end will come.—Compare Matthew 10:23.

    Paragraph 10

    What about jws raised in the organization that are "violent bullies" wife and child beaters, violent drunkards, spiritual abusers of the sheep?

    Paragraph 11

    jws are trained to target people with serious life problems, a very cult-like behavior; serious illness, job loss, death of a loved one....to focus on the paradise earth without death and illness.

    Paragraph 12

    Once again classifying and judging other people appears to be a human tendency.

    "weak"

    "Bad association"

    "disruptive"

    "disobedient"

    and other terms used by jws and elders towards other jws.

    Paragraph 13

    Do jws assume someone is not worthy of their time..........yes, inside and outside the congregation.

    Paragraph 14

    How many jws give up on rvs that aren't home, don't start studying right away, don't change non-jw behaviors fast enough, don't come to the meetings soon enough, doesn't the WTS teach its members to drop people who don't make the proper progress?

    Paragraph 15

    Witnessing to unbelieving family members---a captive audience that they hound. It took 37 years to help this relative...but remember that they could put all that time and pubs on their time slip. How much time do jws spend in helping already baptized members?

    Paragraph 16

    Hesitate to speak---it is against the muslim law to proseltize....focus on relatives because little progress is being made d2d.

    Paragraph 17

    "honesthearted" a judgment word...if a person doesn't listen to a jw are they "honesthearted"?

    How many older people are turned on by what they read in a WT book. Isn't it the Bible that speaks for Jesus?

    Paragraph 18

    This woman had many life problems....she was probably told she would see both her husband and sons again, that her home would not be burned down, and that no rape in the new system. I wonder if she had been gang-raped as a jw that she knows that she would have had to scream or be found guilty of fornication/adultery? Another concept but not a hope the WTS says is in the Bible.

    http://www.freeminds.org/psych/rape.htm

    Paragraph 19

    Urgency..more pressing....near

    rightly disposed ones--only people who listen to, study with, and are baptized as a jw

    Paragraph 20

    Do jws preach "without letup"? Is a meager 2 hours a week indication of the urgency jws supposedly feel?

    "perservering"

    And what kind of teachers are jws; merely reading the paragraph in the book and having the "student" parrot the answer from the paragraph. Can either really use the scriptures to explain or describe what they believe? jws know that they will get their everlasting life whether they make one convert or not.

  • happehanna
    happehanna

    Thanks for the summary.

    Just so pleased I don't have to listen to this rehashed and negative mass produced JW garbage any longer.

  • V
    V

    OMG! My very sincere apologies to AK-JEFF the Visiting Speaker this week. I incorrectly labeled this for AllTimeJeff.

    And yes, this manic level of activity is spreading me a bit thin. All references will be corrected shortly.

  • Mary
    Mary

    Great job Jeff!

    Those who would be attracted to the Jehovah's Witness style of thought would be those depressed by negatives, not those drawn to positives. Natural doomsayers would fit in nicely. As I think back on my nearly 4 decades as a Jehovah's Witness, I realize just how true this is—most Jehovah's Witnesses are just negative, about the world, about society, about the future. I think many of them had that same negative spirit before they were Witnesses. Becoming a Witness gave it all credibility. The world stinks. Nothing good is to be found there. Only the Kingdom can fix it, so why should we try?

    Jeff, I think this one paragraph you did sums the entire religion up. It's funny, they always accuse "apostates" of being "negative" about the Organization, yet this is what they do on a daily basis with absolutely everything and everyone outside of their bubble world. I think they actually hate it whenever they see that someone who's not a Dub returns a large sum of money they found, or when the crime rate falls-----it just goes against their nature and what the religion itself teaches them.

    The Bible book of Acts preserves the exciting account of how the early Christians responded to Jesus' prophecy that the good news of the Kingdom would be preached throughout the inhabited earth............ thousands of people, including "a great crowd of priests," flocked to the first-century congregation. -Acts 2:41; 4:4; 6:7.

    True, but both the message and the method of preaching that the first century Christians did bears no resemblance to how Jehovah's Witnesses today do their preaching. The first century Christians had no 'bible aids', they did not have to count time and report it and there certainly was no two-tiered system in place where some were told they were going to heaven and the rest told they had to stay on earth. I sincerely doubt that Christianity as a religion would have ever taken off had they used the same methods that the WTS uses.

    3) In modern times too, the Christian congregation has been blessed with remarkable growth. Are you not encouraged when you read the annual report of Jehovah's Witnesses and see the results that are being obtained worldwide?

    Encouraged? Acutally, yes I am, because their numbers are terrible. According to the Service Report that I posted a couple of weeks ago, there were 52 countries that reported either negative, zero or one percent growth. There were only 15 countries that reported any real substantial growth (8% growth and above), but even that's not as impressive as it sounds. One country, "Anguilla", had a 29% increase which sounds wonderful, but in actuality, it was a jump from having 35 publishers in 2006 to 45 in 2007----an increase of a mere 10 people.

    The USA (supposedly) had a 3% increase, but when you factor in that someone is now considered a Publisher when they count a mere 15 minutes, that's nothing to rave about either. There was an increase of just 30,312 publishers in the States over the period of 1 year. The majority of them are probably people that were raised as Dubs, not converts, but even if they were, the amount of time required to convert just one person hardly justifies the means:

    The (USA) Witnesses spent 211,314,864 hours preaching and only 30,312 got dunked, which means it took an average of 6,971 hours to convert one person. If you studied with the person for 40 hours a week, it would still take 174 weeks for them to progress to the point of baptism. affraid

    Whether a person has a good relationship with Jehovah or not depends on his exercising faith in Jesus' ransom sacrifice.

    Of course, if a person does have faith in Jesus' ransom, but is not a Witness and doesn't go out knocking on doors Saturday morning, well, we know were that person is headed, don't we?

    7) Jehovah has appointed Jesus as judge; hence, we do not have the right to judge anybody. That is fitting, since—unlike Jesus—we
    can judge only by the "mere appearance to [our] eyes" or "the thing heard by [our] ears," whereas Jesus can read the intimate thoughts and reasonings of the heart.-Isa. 11:1-5; 2 Tim. 4:1.

    Hmmmm............I'll make note of that in case I'm ever hauled before a Judicial Committee where they're all ready to 'judge me'.

    as Ignacio made spiritual progress and applied what he was learning, this once violent bully became a kind person. No one uses him to collect debts anymore, yet Ignacio is content that Bible truths and God's spirit have transformed his personality.

    While there's no doubt that people have 'transformed' their lives over after studying with the Witnesses, this in itself is no proof whatsoever that they have 'the Truth', because there are countless others who have changed their lives after studying with people from other religions.

    All in all, another cookie-cutting study article. I have to admit though, I enjoy reading the comments on here far more than what I ever did listening to them at the Kingdumb Hall.

  • bobld
    bobld

    Jeff,excellent particularly Q11.If this preaching work about the kingdom was sooooooooo important.Why in hells half acre didn't the perfect man preach for 1000 thousand years.Maybe after 3 and 1/2 years he didn't convert anyone and gave up.

    Now why does the wbts want 80 year old ladies going from D-D.What can they accompish but waste time and money.Would you want an 80 year old firefighting lady rescue from a burning building.For christ sake, oh forget it.

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    12) Classifying and judging other people appears to be a human tendency. Yet, Jehovah sees people as individuals. He sees the potential of each one. (Read 1 Samuel 16.7.) In our ministry, we should strive to do the same. Many experiences show the good that results from having a positive view of all to whom we preach.

    This is a tendency of the WTBTS. All special full time servants, whether they be CO's, DO's, Missionaries, etc have a PQR filled out on them, or a Personal Qualifications Report. All of your talents (I mean qualifications) are indeed judged, and you are treated accordingly, even among those in the rarified air of the JW caste system. Jehovah may view you as special, but unfortuantely, you are going to have to wait till after Armageddon to see or experience it. Your potential matters little to the suits on the GB. Trust me.

    Q13, 14) (a) Why did a pioneer react negatively to a woman she met in the ministry? (b) What can we learn from this experience?

    13) Sandra, a pioneer sister, was engaged in the house-to-house ministry on an island in the Caribbean when she met Ruth, who was deeply involved in carnival celebrations. Ruth had twice been crowned national carnival queen. She showed an unusual interest in what Sandra was saying, so a Bible study was arranged. Sandra recalls: "As I walked into her living room, I was greeted by a large photo of Ruth in full carnival regalia, as well as trophies that she had won. I wrongly assumed that someone who was so popular and so involved in carnival festivities could not have an interest in the truth. So I stopped calling on her."

    14) Some time later, Ruth appeared at the Kingdom Hall, and when the meeting was over, she asked Sandra, "Why have you stopped coming to study with me?" Sandra apologized and arranged to resume the study. Ruth made rapid progress, took down her carnival pictures, began engaging in all congregation activities, and dedicated her life to Jehovah. Of course, Sandra came to recognize that her initial reaction was wrong.

    This is an interesting attempt to guilt you to not feel awkward at offering cult ideas to people who have really cool lives. I am not suggesting that "Ruth" wasn't looking for something better then a life lived in carnival clothing. (gawd the writers of these articles are so juvenile in their mentality.) Do you remeber having to preach in "rich" neighborhoods, finding that succesful doctor or investment banker relaxing in their house, and you having to tell them you are better off then they? You never really believed that! I sure didn't. It was A W K W A R D! It's not wrong to prejudge your gut feeling. You aren't judging others as unworthy of the good news. You are in essence judging yourself that their life IS better then yours. That is what the GB is saying here. They know that is what your brain really thinks, that you are worse off. So they spin it and reverse it. "Now now. Don't feel sorry for these poor succesful people who work hard for their things. Remember, they are going to die and you will live forever. Trust us."

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    The USA (supposedly) had a 3% increase

    I need to look at the actual report, but didn't the society include Alaska in the US figures this year? That alone would likely cover the 3% increase. I might be wrong on this, and I am headed out the door to work so can't check it right now.

    First the 15 minute rule, then they begin combining branch reports. They are propping up a cardboard king methinks.

    Jeff

  • Watkins
    Watkins

    Take out the religious element and this is a corporate SALES MEETING! Sell more more more magazines and books! Snnnn-aaap! All that's missing are pie charts and line graphs. I was surprised to read thru the posts and no one had said that... but maybe I'm the only one who thought that... lol. This scrip. came to mind: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you traverse sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one you make him a subject for Gehenna twice as much so as yourselves."

    Billy, your posts always crack me up! You write so naturally, like we're sitting around a table and you're quipping off and making us belly-laugh - so thanks for your humor, it's good to smile!

    Yes Jeff, I've wondered also at the fear-induced negative slant of JW mentality. What drew me to them was that they were the only ones who said they had all the Truth - no other church I'd ever attended said that. By means of their clever indoctrination they convinced me. But it was that negative and very judgemental vibe that caused the dissonance in me that lead me out. It's not until you've taken several steps back and can view the big picture that you realize how far from imitators of Christ we really were. And we thought we were doing it all "just so"...

    I do see a scary future WT with all it's adherants on anti-depressants because for decades they've targeted the most troubled and depressed persons. And yes, I suspect number fudging, but all's fair in love and theocratic warfare. Did you find out anything more about the way the numbers are reported?

    AllTime Jeff - the WT taught me those rich people just didn't love God, that they'd made a decision for riches against Him. Some of the sisters would say the rich thought they already had 'paradise' and other rotten judgementalism. I came in around the time they changed the light about JWs helping to judge the goats and sheep and they told me lots of stories on themselves. I was out in service once when a sister refused the 'householder' a the WT-book-of-the-month because "she didn't deserve it, her kids were dirty and they'd just gotten up at almost noon!"

    Hmmmm............I'll make note of that in case I'm ever hauled before a Judicial Committee where they're all ready to 'judge me'.

    Won't do you any good Mary darlin', they whip out their judging license for JCs - 'For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside, while God judges those outside? Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.' 1Cor. 5:12,13 and Heb. 13:17 - Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will render an account.; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damagin to you.' I've never been JC'd, but everytime I've talked to any elders they never fail to mention those 2 scrips.(for not being obedient to them and their directives to return to the org.)

    All I can say is this is the same old stuff... BUT the dissonance caused from being forced to agree with all their ridiculous crap was what made me see the light vs. the lies - YAH! I know it's worked for thousands before me and hopefully millions more to come.

    Sorry I'm so late in replying to the thread, I've been away. But...it was only another SALES MEETING!

    watkins

  • inkling
    inkling
    Becoming a Witness gave it all credibility. The world stinks. Nothing good is to be found there. Only the Kingdom can fix it, so why should we try?

    wow. so true.

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