Destruction of Families: A False Prophecy (page 2)

JosephAlward

Bang,

That's double-talk; you're clearly attempting to obfuscate in order to avoid presenting direct answers to my questions. I'll repeat those questions:

I argued that the Bible teaches that “there is nothing better” than to eat and drink with gladness, and to enjoy making love to your wife, and working with your hands. These are surely worldly enjoyments, are they not? If not, why not?

Why is enjoying a glass of wine not a worldly way?

Why is enjoying making love to your wife not a worldly way?

Why is enjoying working with your hands not a worldly way?

While you're explaining why these are not worldly ways, please also explain what you think are worldly ways, and point to the Bible verses which support your view. If you cannot do this, why will the forum not have the right to believe that there is no such Bible teaching?

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

Bang

Joseph writes:
<< These are surely worldly enjoyments, are they not? If not, why not? >>

Bang responds:
They are worldly enjoyments, not 'worldly ways'.

<< please also explain what you think are worldly ways..If you cannot do this, why will the forum not have the right to believe that there is no such Bible teaching? >>

"Woe to you...for you tithe and have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and faith...for you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful..."

Worldly ways - and people always have the right to believe that there is no such teaching.

Bang

JosephAlward

Bang,

You response makes no sense. What do you think are "worldly ways," and where in the Bible will we find verses which explain what they are?

Also, why are the "worldly ways"--which only you seem to know about--different from "worldly enjoyments"? But, please don't let this question take precedence over the one above; I need to understand exactly WHAT you think "worldly ways" really are, and where such things are spoken of in the Bible.

Are you just imagining that such a teaching exists, or does the Bible really speak of it?

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

Bang

"..the wisdom of this world is folly with God."

"..following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air.."

"..defilements of the world.."

"..worldly grief produces death.."

"Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that."

"..my peace I give to you; not as the world gives.."

Worldly ways - not eating and drinking. No explanation given though. The Bible is read according to you hearing - but anyway here's an example I read of a worldly way.

-- After all this time, you know you disappointed your mother and I very much, you left, without writing, spent everything and now would like us to bail you out. You'll have to work hard. This might sound hard-hearted, but it's best in the long run.
-- The brother - does not even speak of the sinner as a brother but rather "this son of yours".

And God's way:
No proof on the sinner's part. Let's celebrate with this joy for my son is alive.

Bang

JosephAlward

Bang,

You said in an earlier post that "Christians honour and bring honour to their parents in the humble refusal to partake in worldly ways."

I've asked you waht you think these "ways" are and you've been unable to give me an answer, and you've found no clear teaching about these "ways" in the Bible. All you've been able to come up with is several cut and pasted verses which have the words "world" or "worldly" in them, but they have nothing to do with how one should lead one's life, with the possible exception of the one about marrying:

"Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles,"

If you're offering "marrying" as one of the "worldly ways" which you think could be avoided if one wished to make one's parents proud, I think you don't have a very good understanding of the Bible, because Ecclesiastes clearly teaches that one should enjoy mariage:

"Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love" (Ecclesiastes 9:7-11)

You've shown that you don't really know what you mean when you speak of "worldly ways," and it's clear the Bible says virtually nothing about them, or about the avoidance of them bringing honor to parents. Furthermore, I don't know where you found the example about disappointing your mother that you "read of," but it certainly is not in the Bible. Are you not merely imagining that these teachings exist? Or, to use your language, are you not "hearing" falsely?

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

Bang

Joseph writes:
<< If you're offering "marrying" as one of the "worldly ways" which you think could be avoided if one wished to make one's parents proud >>

Bang responds:
You still don't get it, don't bend it. With marriage comes other pressures, things that those in the world do - ways of the world. Of course marriage should be enjoyed.
The Bible doesn't say 'zebra' either, but they are useful for explaining the way black and white stripes look.

Bang

JosephAlward

Bang,

You said that "Christians honour and bring honour to their parents in the humble refusal to partake in worldly ways," but you haven't defined worldly ways. All you done is provide a few verses which have the words "world," or "worldly" in them, but those haven't even come close to describing what these "ways" are.

Will you define "worldly ways" for the forum, and give a few examples of them, and then show where the Bible says that avoiding them will bring "honour to...parents"?

In regards to marriage: you seem to be implying that marriage leads to problems of a "worldly" nature, and that avoiding marriage would bring honour to your parents. If this is not what you're saying, then what are you saying?

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

Bang

Worldly way - providing well beyond what's needed to your spouse to the neglect of the poor in the comunity.

Worldly way - setting out to acheive the primary goal of 'success' in money and position, a pleasing thing for well heeled parents to boast of.

Worldly way - getting drunk on your twenty-first so you can 'be a man' like your dad.

Worldly way - driving your merc to church past all those 'sinners' in the street who are going to 'get it' when God comes.

Worldly way - jumping out of the building when your stocks fall, or resting comfortably in your 'success' when they don't.

How many examples of the 'way' things are done in the world do you need? A person could write books.

Bang

JosephAlward

In other words, don't do anything to excess. If this is all you meant by "worldly ways," I'm surprised it took you so long to share this with us.

Now, you've claimed that avoiding these ways makes one's parents proud. Where in the Bible does it say this? If there is no such teaching, then shouldn't you have told us a long time ago that this was just your opinion and saved us all of this trouble?

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

Destruction of Families: A False Prophecy

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