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Watchtower Comments (3.03.08 Counted Worthy) DOWNLOAD IT HERE
by V 22 Replies latest watchtower bible
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blondie
Good summary of the changes re the anointed. BTW, how do I access the text part of the WT study article? Help out a computer dummy.
Paragraph 1 and 2 and 3
Notice how the WTS says the Judgment Day is the one covering 1,000 years starting after Armageddon. Yet the WTS talks continuously about people being judged and executed at Armageddon, dying forever. So is the judgment day 1,000 years or the period of Armageddon?
Will children of non-jws be allowed to live; do survivors have to be baptized jws?
*** w89 9/1 p. 19 par. 7 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium ***Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. (Revelation 7:9-17; 2 Corinthians 4:4) They will make up the "flesh" that Jesus Christ said would be saved through the worst tribulation of all human history
Abraham received the promise, yet he will not be ruling in heaven.
Paragraph 4
Jesus, primary seed, Messiah/Christ...Kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press....all Christians, no mention of some that had an alternate "hope" to live on earth.
Paragraph 5
John the Baptist was not going to heaven. It is a good thing Jesus resurrected Lazarus or he would have been earth bound.
Paragraph 6
Exact number? revealed in Revelation 144,000; a book full of symbolic and literal numbers.
In Rev 7:4 were the 12 tribes literal or symbolic per the WTS? Levi was not counted in among the 12 tribes in literal Israel and there was no trible of Joseph but rather his 2 sons Manasseh and Ephraim. How can 144,000 be literal and the 12 tribes be symbolic?
(Revelation
7:4-8)4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: 5 Out of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand sealed; out of the tribe of Reu´ben twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand; 6 out of the tribe of Ash´er twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Naph´ta·li twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Ma·nas´seh twelve thousand; 7 out of the tribe of Sim´e·on twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Le´vi twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Is´sa·char twelve thousand; 8 out of the tribe of Zeb´u·lun twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand; out of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand sealed.*** w60 8/1 p. 479 Questions From Readers ***
Why do not the tribes of Ephraim and Dan appear among those of spiritual Israel as given at Revelation 7:4-8?—P. R., U.S.A.It is clear from the Scriptures that Jehovah purposed the number twelve, the multiple of two symbolically complete numbers, three and four, to represent organizational completeness. This is seen not only in there being twelve sons of Jacob and twelve tribes of Israel, but also in there being "the twelve apostles of the Lamb."—Rev. 21:14.
Early in the wilderness journey the tribe of Levi was exchanged for all the first-born survivors, who belonged to Jehovah by reason of his sparing them on the night of the first Passover. So as to have twelve tribes again, the tribe of Joseph was divided into two tribes, those of his two sons Ephraim and Manasseh.—Num. 3:12, 13, 41; 10:14-28.
It follows that in listing the twelve tribes of spiritual Israel not all the names of the tribes could appear and there still be only the symbolic number of twelve. It might be thought that the original twelve tribes would be named in the book of Revelation, but not so. The tribes of Ephraim and Dan are omitted there as not deserving of symbolic significance.
Paragraph 7 and 8
Notice how the WTS does not show that Abraham's righteousness is not at the same level as what the WTS ascribes to the "anointed."
If exercising faith in Jesus' ransom sacrifice makes one declare righteous, what about the "great crowd"? Don't they do the same?
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Dead Man Joaquin
As the number of "anointed" increase, you're gonna see more and more "E-Watchman" types come out of the woodwork - i.e. "anointed" who claim that the WT is corrupt but it's still "Jehovah's Organization" or that JWs are "God's people". These folks are FAR more dangerous than outright "apostates" who tell you to just get the hell out of the damn cult, people. Maybe this is why a recent magazine explaining the change in understanding regarding 1935 put the anointed squarely in their place when they said that the "anointed" have no more "special understanding" or "holy spirit" than the R&F and are under subjection to non-anointed elders. Gee, then, how is it they, as the "faithful and discreet slave" class are "appointed over all the master's belongings"? Or does that lack of special understanding rule only apply to the roughly 9,000 or so anointed BESIDES the tiny handful of men in Brooklyn who claim to represent their interests but take none of their input into consideration? Do the 9,000+ have ANY role in the selection of GB members? I'm tellin' ya folks, the "anointed" are catching on. This spells certain danger for Mother...
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
V, Excellent job... as usual.
Back in the old days, like 2003 and earlier, they used to have articles before the Memorial discouraging the nut cases to go for the snacks at the Memorial. For example:
w032/15pp.20-21WhatDoestheLord’sEveningMealMeantoYou?******
Why
MistakenAssumptions12
Anointed Christians are absolutely sure that they have the heavenly calling. But what if some individuals who lack this call have been partaking of the Memorial emblems? Now aware that they never had the heavenly hope, surely their conscience will compel them to stop partaking. God would not look with favor upon anyone representing himself as a person called to be a heavenly king and priest when he knew that he really did not have such a calling. (Romans 9:16; Revelation 20:6) Jehovah executed the Levite Korah for presumptuously seeking the Aaronic priesthood. (Exodus 28:1; Numbers 16:4-11, 31-35) If any Christian comes to realize that he has wrongly partaken of the Memorial emblems, he or she should stop partaking and humbly pray for Jehovah’s forgiveness.—Psalm 19:13.
13
Why might some mistakenly assume that they have the heavenly calling? The death of a mate or some other tragedy might cause them to lose interest in life on earth. Or they might desire the same destiny as a close friend who professes to be an anointed Christian. Of course, God has not assigned anyone to recruit others for this privilege. And he does not anoint Kingdom heirs by causing them to hear voices with messages to that effect.14
The false religious idea that all good people go to heaven might lead some to think that they have the heavenly calling. Hence, we need to guard against being swayed by past wrong views or other factors. For instance, some might ask themselves: ‘Do I use medications that affect my emotions? Am I inclined to have deep emotions that I could misjudge?’
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A few might ask themselves: ‘Do I want to be prominent? Am I ambitious for authority now or as a future joint heir with Christ?’ When Kingdom heirs were called in the first century, not all of them had responsible positions in the congregation. And individuals with the heavenly calling do not seek prominence or boast about being anointed. They display the humility expected of those having "the mind of Christ."—1 Corinthians 2:16.16
Some may have concluded that they have the heavenly calling because they have acquired considerable Bible knowledge. But spirit anointing does not bring extraordinary understanding, for Paul had to instruct and counsel certain anointed ones. (1 Corinthians 3:1-3; Hebrews 5:11-14) God has an arrangement for providing spiritual food for all his people. (Matthew 24:45-47) So nobody should think that being an anointed Christian gives him wisdom superior to that of those having the earthly hope. Spirit anointing is not indicated by proficiency in answering Scriptural questions, witnessing, or giving Bible talks. Christians with the earthly hope also do well in these respects.
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If a fellow believer asks about the heavenly calling, an elder or other mature Christian can discuss the matter with him. However, one person cannot make this decision for another. A person who truly has this calling does not need to ask others if he has such a hope. Anointed ones "have been given a new birth, not by corruptible, but by incorruptible reproductive seed, through the word of the living and enduring God." (1 Peter 1:23) By his spirit and Word, God implants the "seed" that makes the individual "a new creation," with a heavenly hope. (2 Corinthians 5:17) And Jehovah makes the choice. Anointing "depends, not upon the one wishing nor upon the one running, but upon God." (Romans 9:16) So how can a person be sure that he has the heavenly calling?So now in 2007 & 2008 they see substantial increases yet don't return to the accusations and discouragement of former years? Well, I guess the congregations will need even more matzoe and Mogan David this year.
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BluesBrother
Seems that I have type in my WT quotes now, no cut and pasting from the text , Oh well !
The article describes the concept of being "declared righteous" from Abraham onwards, OK if you follow their logic, pretty "unique" if you dont.
Par 3 tells us that Judgement day is future and lasts 1000 years , so what about now and before Armageddon?
The BIG point of this article, the removal of the 1935 date is kind of alluded to without being given a big emphasis. The review q's do not deal with it. I guess that a lot of sleepy dubs will go home and not realise that there has been a change . However we do read in par 14 - 16.
"After 1935 the thrust of the preaching work turned to gathering the Great Crowd ...........(15) Even so over the years since the 1930's a few individuals have been called to the heavenly hope. why?.........(16) It seems however that not all who have been called to a heavenly hope since the 1930's are replacements for ones who have fallen away. Jehovah has evidently made sure that we will have enough anointed Christians among us through the final days of this system......"
What! ? We aways knew that the 4 angels were holding back the storm of Armageddon just until the anointed were all sealed , and when they were ready.... BAM! the battle commences and we poor saps of the G Crowd just fit in with it. Now we are told that they have slowed down the gathering and sealing of the anointed, just to look after us, or them, of the G/crowd??
No come on...I feel just as I felt when I read of the Generation change in the mid '90's - obviously they are thinking up something to cover for the fact that the predictions just have not worked out...If the dubs cannot see that then they really are blind, dumb and foolish !
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BluesBrother
It is a good video ....But I regret the lack of a written text (not just to crib from) The video only gives excerpts and the video makers take on it..we need the FULL article, in print to see it in context and discuss it ...I happen to have the WT, many don't.
COME BACK BLONDIE - ....please?
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carla
Thank you V and friends. I love these because I believe they are understandable for non witnesses as well as long time jw's. Do you have a blood one or one in the works? That would be great! I tried explaining the blood issue the other day to a few friends and by the time we were done we were all confused! Yes, I sent them to AJWRB for more info but they still walked away scratching their heads.
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ninja
cheers V.....they are all on dvd now.....and copies are gonna be made....appreciate it sir.......da ninja
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blondie
Paragraph 9,10
Note that the WTS teaches that both men and women were anointed. I have seen other individuals think that only men where chosen. Note that the WTS says "about" 120 attended; slackard attendants at that meeting. Why only an estimate? "demonstrate their loyalty to Jehovah" Where's Jesus?
Paragraph 11
"Jehovah saw fit to have a permanent record made of the earthly ministry of Jesus as well as His dealings with and counsel to first-century anointed Christians" Who really selected the books in the NT, the canon? When was it done 100 AD as the WTS says or 323 as history says?
*** it-1 p. 409 Canon ***By the end of the second century there was no question but that the canon of the Christian Greek Scriptures was closed, and we find such ones as Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, and Tertullian recognizing the writings comprising the Christian Scriptures as carrying authority equal to that of the Hebrew Scriptures. Irenaeus in appealing to the Scriptures makes no fewer than 200 quotations from Paul’s letters. Clement says he will answer his opponents by "the Scriptures which we believe are valid from their omnipotent authority," that is, "by the law and the prophets, and besides by the blessed Gospel."—TheAnte-NiceneFathers, Vol. II, p. 409, "The Stromata, or Miscellanies."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament
Paragraph 12
"their anointing did not elevate them to kingship over fellow anointed Christians while still on earth."
How many jws and GB either elevate the "anointed" or elevate themselves?
"not that we are the masters over your faith" yet all doctrine must come through the WTS/GB/FDS.
Paragraph 13
Not all 144,000 anointed Christians were selected in the first century. Their calling continued throughout the apostolic period and then apparently slowed down. However, it did continue throughout the succeeding centuries into modern times."
So who were these anointed? Does the WTS say. More pointedly, who was the GB during this time?
Paragraph 14,15
"to complete the number of 144,000. By the mid-1930's, that task was evidently well along" Evidently my foot
*** w01 5/15 p. 15 ‘Behold! The Great Crowd!’ ***Prior to 1935, an increasing number of those who responded to the Bible’s message and showed zeal in preaching the good news manifested an interest in living forever on the Paradise earth. They had no desire to go to heaven, for God had not given them the hope of heavenly life. Their identifying themselves with the great crowd of other sheep indicated that by 1935 the calling of the 144,000 anointed Christians was virtually complete.—Revelation 7:4.
"over the years since the 1930's, a few individuals have been called...replaced...seem reasonable...not newly converted...already proved their loyalty"
*** w07 5/1 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***When does the calling of Christians to a heavenly hope cease?T
he Bible does not reveal a precise answer to that question. We do know that the anointing of Jesus’ disciples with a view to their heavenly inheritance began in 33 C.E. (Acts 2:1-4) We also know that after the death of the apostles, genuine anointed Christian "wheat" came to "grow together" with counterfeit Christians, "weeds." (Matthew 13:24-30) Then, starting in the late 1800’s, anointed Christians were again prominently active. In 1919 "the harvest of the earth," including the gathering of the final ones of the anointed, began to be reaped.—Revelation 14:15, 16.
From the late 1800’s until 1931, the main thrust of the preaching work was the gathering of the remaining members of the body of Christ. In 1931 the Bible Students took the Bible-based name Jehovah’s Witnesses, and in the November 15, 1933, issue of TheWatchtower, the thought was expressed that this unique name was the "denarius" referred to in Jesus’ parable recorded at Matthew 20:1-16. The 12 hours mentioned in the parable were thought to correspond to the 12 years from 1919 to 1931. For many years after that, it was believed that the call to the heavenly Kingdom had ended in 1931 and that those called to be joint heirs with Christ in 1930 and 1931 were "the last" called. (Matthew 20:6-8) However, in 1966 an adjusted understanding of that parable was presented, and it became clear that it had nothing to do with the end of the calling of the anointed.
In 1935 the "great crowd" of Revelation 7:9-15 was understood to be made up of "other sheep," Christians with an earthly hope, who would appear on the world scene in "the last days" and who as a group would survive Armageddon. (John 10:16; 2 Timothy 3:1; Revelation 21:3, 4) After that year, the thrust of the disciple-making work turned to the gathering in of the great crowd. Hence, especially after 1966 it was believed that the heavenly call ceased in 1935. This seemed to be confirmed when almost all who were baptized after 1935 felt that they had the earthly hope. Thereafter, any called to the heavenly hope were believed to be replacements for anointed Christians who had proved unfaithful.
Without a doubt, if one of the anointed unrepentantly falls away, Jehovah does call another individual to take his place. (Romans 11:17-22) However, the number of genuine anointed ones who have become unfaithful is likely not large. On the other hand, as time has gone by, some Christians baptized after 1935 have had witness borne to them that they have the heavenly hope. (Romans 8:16, 17) Thus, it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends.
How should a person be viewed who has determined in his heart that he is now anointed and begins to partake of the emblems at the Memorial? He should not be judged. The matter is between him and Jehovah. (Romans 14:12) However, genuine anointed Christians do not demand special attention. They do not believe that their being of the anointed gives them special "insights," beyond what even some experienced members of the great crowd may have. They do not believe that they necessarily have more holy spirit than their companions of the other sheep have; nor do they expect special treatment or claim that their partaking of the emblems places them above the appointed elders in the congregation. They humbly remember that some anointed men in the first century did not qualify to serve as elders or ministerial servants. (1 Timothy 3:1-10, 12, 13; Titus 1:5-9; James 3:1) Some anointed Christians were even spiritually weak. (1 Thessalonians 5:14) And sisters, although anointed, did not teach in the congregation.—1 Timothy 2:11, 12.
Hence, anointed Christians along with their other sheep companions strive to stay spiritually strong, cultivating the fruitage of the spirit and working for the peace of the congregation. All Christians, whether anointed or of the other sheep, work hard at preaching the good news and making disciples under the direction of the Governing Body. Anointed Christians are content to do this for as long as it is God’s will that they remain on earth as Jehovah’s servants.
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dawg
Man, I'm a country boy and the greatest compliment one can give another where I'm from is to call them the Sh%t.... so, from from this country boy.. you're the sh$t. Good job...