BIG NEWS - UK Gov't to Stop Watchtower Blood Teaching?

by skeeter1 50 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    As somebody has said, Dansk started a campaign to write to the Charity Commission last year. Several of us did and this is an extract from the reply that I got:

    Thank you for your e-mail of 7 October 2007 about the above charity. The charity is established with exclusively charitable objects. These are available on the Charity Commission's website under the Register entry for the charity:
    http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/registeredcharities/showcharity.asp?chyno=1077961
    The Commission has no evidence to suggest that the charity undertakes activities outside of these objects and that it is therefore failing to operate as a charity..............You also raise issues about the charity which appear to be doctrinally based. Where the charity is complying with English and Welsh Law in promoting their beliefs, the Commission would not comment on matters which are based, for example, around matters of translation and interpretation of religious texts or religious understanding. Many religions promote many different doctrines and we are not able to become involved in such issues. The Commission's regulatory remit only extends to issues pertaining to charity law.

    It would be great if they had a change of heart.......

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    It is nonsense for the Witnesses to say they do not try to convince the general public to refuse medical treatment. If their ministry is successful then that is exactly the outcome.

    This really bugs me like with those Witnesses (I am sure you knew some) who would habitually say on the first call: "we are not here to convert you". Yeah right.

    Slim

  • besty
    besty

    "The draft legislation continues: “Whilst exercising personal choice regarding medical treatment might not affect public benefit, public benefit is more likely to be an issue where an organisation advancing religion seeks to actively discourage members of the public in general from seeking medical treatment.”"

    I think the wording used here is sufficiently ambiguous to make it difficult for any of us to make a call on what might happen.

    The WTS fulfills its <self-defined> charitable objectives here in the UK. That's a given. Not difficult to set the rules and then keep them.

    The question here is who are 'the public'?

    The CC's own definition allows for active JW's alone to be legitimately classed as 'the public' and therefore the WTS (and its affiliated Charities - the individual congregations) would be serving a public benefit by meeting their <self-defined> charitable objectives, ministering and promoting Christian faith to each other. Them's the rules.

    For me the difficulty would be getting the CC to open Pandora's Box and attempt a legal case against the JW's to prove that they actively seek to discourage 'the GENERAL public' from getting medical help.

    We all know the facts about blood-related deaths - the trick will be getting a public body with limited resources and plenty else to do taking this up.

  • Gill
    Gill

    I can hear the cries of 'Persecution'!

    However, I can also hear the sound of more and more money being put into the Watchtower contribution boxes because this MUST be a sign that they are the ONLY TRUE Religion!

    This is no skin off the WT's nose and I know my relatives will contribute even more if the WT loses its tax free status!

    Persecution, I say! It's all Persecution!!

    If the WT loses its tax free status then what about other religions that have worse teachings?

  • mouthy
    mouthy

    REGARDING...."Sorry, but I think this is irrelevant as it only applies to Jehovah's Witnesses themselves." Still on their side earnest??? I know MANY JWs who were told by elders they MUST not take blood while they were IN the hospital.
    Guess you will never see them as they truly are will you... I guess you know Rita's ( whom you were in the same cong as) ex hubby died..... Pity he was good at
    "Making sure of all things"& good at keeping me informed of those who are still IN the CULT!!!!!

  • moshe
    moshe

    For whatever reasons, I hope the blood transfusion rules go into the WT old light dungeon asap. It is already too late for many dead JW kids.

  • llbh
    llbh
    The CC's own definition allows for active JW's alone to be legitimately classed as 'the public' and therefore the WTS

    I have to say i think that you are wrong here,

    . IMO the public that is referred to are the people outside the WTS not the people inside as they are by definition not the public but the charity and its coworkers.

    From what i can see a serious challenge to WTS's cane be mounted on the grounds outlined

    Regards

    David

  • besty
    besty
    The CC's own definition allows for active JW's alone to be legitimately classed as 'the public' and therefore the WTS

    I have to say i think that you are wrong here,

    . IMO the public that is referred to are the people outside the WTS not the people inside as they are by definition not the public but the charity and its coworkers.

    This is a fascinating subject and is sure to be causing much head-scratching at London Bethel. I recommend anyone interested in reading more to go here.

    http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/publicbenefit/publicbenefit.asp#f

    The bottom line - is the WTS and its affiliates charitable and are they acting in the public benefit??

    Relevant to this thread is Section E4 found on the webpage linked above:

    E4. Principle 1c Benefits must be balanced against any detriment or harm

    ‘Benefit’ means the overall or net benefit to the public. It is not simply a question of showing that some benefit may result.

    The achievement of a particular aim may be of some benefit to the public but, in achieving that benefit, may also have detrimental or harmful effects. In assessing the public benefit of individual organisations, we will consider any evidence of significant detrimental or harmful effects of that organisation carrying out its aims in its particular circumstances. There would need to be some real evidence of detriment or harm; it cannot just be supposed.

    The existence of detriment or harm does not necessarily mean that the organisation cannot be charitable. It is a question of balancing the benefits against the detriment or harm.

    If the detrimental or harmful consequences are greater than the benefits, the overall result is that the organisation would not be charitable.

    Examples of things that might be evidenced to be detrimental or harmful might include:

    • something that is damaging to the environment;
    • something that is dangerous or damaging to mental or physical health;
    • something that encourages or promotes violence or hatred towards others;
    • unlawfully restricting a person’s freedom.

    No organisation that has aims that are illegal, or that intentionally deceives or misrepresents its aims and so is a sham, can be a charity. Where that sort of detriment or harm is present then there is no balancing to be done as, notwithstanding any benefits that might arise from carrying out the organisation’s aims, it cannot be recognised as charitable.

    As with the consideration of benefits, we are concerned only with the detriment or harm that arises from the particular organisation carrying out its particular aims. The fact that it may be argued there is detriment or harm to the public generally from certain types of charity carrying out particular charitable purposes does not mean that the detriment or harm actually exists. Or, if it does exist, that it necessarily applies to any organisation having those charitable purposes in its objects.

    Where the benefits are overwhelming, the existence of some inconsequential detriment would not affect public benefit.

    For example, it might be argued that the provision of motorised transport for people with a disability has some harmful effect on the environment. But, in general, the benefits of giving mobility to people with a disability are considerably greater than any consequential harmful effects on the environment. We might encourage the charity to consider ways of minimising any harmful environmental effects. But, unless the transport were grossly polluting of the environment for some reason (in which case it is unlikely to be roadworthy anyway), we would consider the benefits to outweigh the harm.

    Conversely, where there may be some benefit but the harm is considerable enough to negate the benefits, public benefit would be affected.

    For example, we recognise that there are risks involved in playing any sport. But some dangerous or ‘extreme’ sports involve risks that go far beyond the usual risks associated with energetic physical exercise. If an organisation is concerned with promoting participation in such a sport, we would consider what steps the organisation takes to minimise the dangers to personal safety and reduce the risks of injury to a minimum. If insufficient steps were taken to minimise the risks, then whatever health benefits there might be from the physical exercise of participating in the sport would be greatly outweighed by the dangers to physical health.

    Given the above I think there is a real opportunity here for UK residents to write to the CC with their own experience of harm suffered due to organisational policy or doctrine - protected paedophiles, blood issues, shunning are some things I can think of. Important that your letter should be addressing the points from the quoted section above - once I write a letter I will post it.

  • MissingLink
    MissingLink

    Besty - on the one criteria for doing harm

    • something that encourages or promotes violence or hatred towards others;

    There is the article that says DF ones are to be hated.

    October 1, 1993 Watchtower p.19 par. 15

    15 Regarding them, the psalmist said: "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies." (Psalm 139:21, 22) It was because they intensely hated Jehovah that David looked on them with abhorrence. Apostates are included among those who show their hatred of Jehovah by revolting against him. Apostasy is, in reality, a rebellion against Jehovah. Some apostates profess to know and serve God, but they reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible, but they reject Jehovah's organization and actively try to hinder its work. When they deliberately choose such badness after knowing what is
    right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of their makeup, then a Christian must hate (in the Biblical sense of the word) those who have inseparably attached themselves to the badness. True Christians share Jehovah's feelings toward such apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On the contrary, they "feel a loathing" toward those who have
    made themselves God's enemies, but they leave it to Jehovah to execute vengeance.--Job 13:16; Romans 12:19; 2 John 9, 10.
  • Earnest
    Earnest
    Earnest : Sorry, but I think this is irrelevant as it only applies to Jehovah's Witnesses themselves.
    Mouthy : I know MANY JWs who were told by elders they MUST not take blood while they were IN the hospital.

    Hi Mouthy, this is all that I am saying...that the blood policy applies to Jehovah's Witnesses, not to the general public. I very much doubt that those elders you refer to advised members of the general public in the hospital on whether they should take blood or not.

    Sorry to hear Rita's ex-husband died. I did not know.

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