Nathan, You asked about "Militarism, How will it be Forever Destroyed? a Masterly discourse by J.F.Rutherford of the New York City Bar." It was a book Rutherford wrote before he became President. I have only seen it 1 time. It is very very rare. Like "Man's Salvation", which Rutherford wrote in 1906, I do not know the date it was published only that it was before him becoming president. Maybe someone else has more info on it.
New York Times June 22, 1918
by Nathan Natas 41 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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Leolaia
Rutherford was stronger than that. He said: "There is only one of two things you can do -- go to war, or refuse to take a part in the conflict in any way and receive the consequences". There isn't a third option, as least if one wants to remain loyal to Christ. He expressed his intent to work things out with the President but until then, and in case the efforts fail, he advised the conscript to "be a brave and valient soldier of Christ. If you are shot because of the stand you take for the Lord, that will be a quick method of entering His glorious presence. If you are confined in prison, write me as often as you can and as long as the Lord gives me the opportunity I shall be pleased to do anything I can for you".
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Nathan Natas
Hi Leo,
Is John DeCecca a.k.a Giovanni DeCeccca?
If so, when was he called "John?"
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Leolaia
Isn't "John" the English equivalent of "Giovanni"? I think he was referred to as such in some of these sources.
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johnny cip
Nathan; nice work again. a lot of jw's today don't understand the laws in 1917 about freedom of speech . were much tougher than today. speaking out in a public way about the gov't in times of war was a prison sentence. based on the 1798 sedition act (john adams) and the 1917 espinonage act of 1917. these laws basically said printing newpapers or public speeches talking against wars that the united states was ingauged in was a criminal act. and punishable by jail time or exportation even death. don't be fooled by the wt here , there were 1000's of persons given jailed in 1917 and given 20 year prison terms just for speaking out against ww1 , 100's of newpapers were completely closed down by the US GOV'T in 1917, all for talking against the war. it wasn't till 1933 when FDR became president that he let out close to 1000 persons put in prison for speaking out against ww1 were all let out of jail. the wts was guilty of the laws of the UNITED STATED on the books at the time and got off easy. all anyone here has to do is GOOGLE THE 1917 ESPONAGE ACT and learn the wt was far from the only ones in trouble with the gov't during WW1 . john
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chasson
You are right Leolaia concerning the Insberg's letter (ironically Rutherford said just before that Insberg have a free choice on the non-combattant service : "As to whether you will take non-combattant service or refuse must be determined by yourself", and at the end of the letter he let him only two different choice ( one good, refuse the incorporation, even the non-combattant service, or go to war and not be a good Christian) without the possibility to choose the non-combattant service), and i have still made the same conclusion as you in my article in French, nevertheless it was only a communication by mail and not a general explanation in an article of the Watchtower. So, in the transcript of the 1917's court, you can find some evocation of other Bible's Student who have not chosen the only two choice of Rutherford, surely because they were not informed of the position of Rutherford, or because Rutherford or other watchtower's official were not so precise as Rutherford was in the Ingsberg's letter.
It seems that other evocation, i have not the transcript here, shows that Rutherford hoped that the non-combattant service in America could be permissive, and let young bible student worked as fireman or other charitable works, not in connection with the war effort, as the non-combattant service in United Kingdom. (The decision of Wilson in March 1918 is here: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9C05E0D6113FE433A25751C2A9659C946996D6CF )
The ambiguities of the Rutherford's thoughts on the matter are clearly perceptible in the Insberg's letter, at the beginning Insberg has the choice of the non-combattant service, and it is an incorporation in the Army, at the end, he has no choice, and must be shot or jailed for his christian attitude. -
hamsterbait
Why is this all three times wider than my screen so I have to scroll across??
HB
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joelbear69
I spent a very interesting evening with Sister De Cecca when I was at Bethel.
It was interesting to hear a voice from the past. Someone who had actually
been there.
Of course now, the mystique of that is gone. -
hamsterbait
The transcript of the court records for this whole case have been posted on this board.
"railroaded" in the header I think.
HB
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Bangalore
Great stuff.
Bangalore