1 John 5:7,8 and Colossians 2:9

by DoomVoyager 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • DoomVoyager
    DoomVoyager

    Both are trinitarian verses.

    Colossions 2:9, KJV: "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily ." NWT: " because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily"

    NWT has changed the word "godhead" to "divine quality".

    1 John 5:7,8 KJV: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." NWT: " For there are three witness bearers, 8 the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement."

    NWT has omitted an extremely significant phrase from verse 7.

    Are there any sound scholastic reasons for these omissions, or were they done just to fit in with bOrganizational doctrine?

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    Other translations have updated 1 John 5:7,8 to say 'spirit, water and blood', including the Revised Standard and New International Versions. So on that one, the NWT is in line with other modern translations.

    I don't know about Col. 2:9, maybe one of our scholars on board can help.

  • DoomVoyager
    DoomVoyager

    Ok, interesting. Thanks. I found another thing in Colossions.

    Colossians 1:16,17.

    KJV: " For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

    NWT: "16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist, "

    The word "other" is inserted 4 times, again in order to support a non-trinitarian doctrine.

    Didn't they ever read Revelation? " If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll;"

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum

    As for the text in Colossians, the word indeed means "deity" (i.e. an emphasis on nature rather than quality), and the use of pleróma, which is a term used widely in Christian gnosticism to refer to the totality of deity (i.e. God), strongly supports this understanding as well. Here is a quick discussion of the term:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleroma

  • R.Crusoe
    R.Crusoe

    It is one crazy text that says God will add to him all plagues when the texts preceding it were gathered from all manner of place and times.

    Th Bible is really a joke waiting for a laugh!

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts
    1 John 5:7,8 KJV: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

    and these three are one is a spurious addition to the King James Bible that did not appear in the original text. In this particular case, the NWT is correct not to include it.

  • R.Crusoe
    R.Crusoe

    About a yaer ago I would find it impossible to think of the Bible as a complete fake! Now I am virtually convinced of it! Maybe some events are historicalbut the linking of them to divinity is mankinds struggle to win power and authority over nations as some representative of divinity!

    Exactly what the WT have been up to!

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    Interesting. For the reference on "pleroma" the gnostic concept is quite profound:

    Gnostic texts envision the pleroma as aspects of God, the eternal Divine Principle, who can only be partially understood through the pleroma. Each "aeon" (i.e. aspect of God) is given a name (sometimes several) and a female counterpart (Gnostic viewed divinity and completeness in terms of male/female unification). The Gnostic myth goes on to tell how the aeon wisdom's female counterpart Sophia separated from the Pleroma to form the demiurge, thus giving birth to the material world.

    It suggests that the separation of the female what what gave birth to the material world. The "holy trinity" in the Bible does exist as noted by the trinity of the two covering cherubs and the Ark of the Covenant. The ark represented Holy Mount Zion and thus the aspect of the Father, the two angels were the archangel Michael and his "wife" (now former wife), none other than Satan. There is some Biblical basis that once Satan became corrupt in heaven the material world, mankind specifically was created. Why? Because in heaven there are basically just concepts. There were no corporal sins with the penalty of death. What kind of SIN could an angel commit? Still there was "corruption" in thought, discontentment with God, etc. So basically mankind got created where SIN was possible. Ideas could be acted out, laws established and when the Law is broken, Sin punishible by death. So in that sense, when the woman, Satan, broke away, it did result in the creation of the material world, through which Satan gets condemned to death.

    The gnostic world and the Mysteries tend to understand that the "Divine Feminine" ultimately is a reference to the Mother Goddess and that mother goddess is the snake-woman, Lilith, who is clearly the entity of temptation in the Garden of Eden.

    Further, I think the FULLNESS of the Christ is suggested in contrast to Satan. When described Satan, the beautiful angel, was decorated with nine stones, identical to the ones found in the breastplate of the high priest, which represented Christ, who carries 12 stones. So in that sense, Jesus has the fullness of 12 and carries all the qualities of the father, whereas Satan tends to specialize in two aspects, those being the Lion and the Eagle, Justice and Wisdom. Christ balances these out with the other two, the Bull and Man, representing power and love. But, Christ is also the Eagle and the Lion.

    Thus it is interesting, where one might think, especially compared to some of the pagan writings that "wisdom personified" in Proverbs is this woman, Sophia, and thus a reference to Satan, but it is a reference to the Christ as wisdom personified and also a woman.

    Very interestingly, Satan, like Babylon the Great, the harlot, becomes an aspect of the Christ via the experiences in human form. That is, on a very, very, VERY generalized way, when Christ is in the flesh the first time, he reflects more of the personality of Michael, the archangel, and at the second coming more of the personality of the feminine aspects and qualities that Satan posseses, so that in the end, Christ is a combination of that range of aspects, from the perfect man of righteousness and nobility (heir to the throne of King David) to that of a prostitute, the aspect of Satan's qualities/character, when he returns the second time and takes up the body of a person who was a prostitute. But the cincher is that the prodigal son prostitute overcomes that aspect and thus understands the mind of Satan and thus can expose the flaw in it.

    To make a long story short, Satan was basically granted everything in that "battle in heaven" which was a court battle. The single thing Satan was condemned on was murder. There was no excuse for murder, even if there was an excuse, however convoluted, for every other thing.

    The new TRINITY, of course, will be Jehovah, Jesus and his new Bride, made up of the 1,440,000 from the earth. That is the "church" replaces Satan on Mount Zion as the wifely counterpart to Jesus. Only this second wife is tested to the death first.

    JC

  • TIMBOB
    TIMBOB

    You will find that many scholars beleive the KJV to be a horrible translation. If I were you, I would not be using it to compare to the NWT. Maybe someone else can give you a good translation to use if your wanting to double check the societies work.

    Cheers

  • Burger Time
    Burger Time

    I like the NIV...but no translation is 100%.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit