Where do you draw the line???

cognac

When you feel like what JWs have done is wrong and you want to take a stand but on the other hand you also want your family to love you?

What, in the end, matters most? I go back and forth on this. On the one hand, I want my family's love. On the other hand, I don't want to fade, I want to stand up for what is right and what is wrong... I feel very strongly that some things are much larger then we ourselves are, and it we don't follow that, we might just lose ourselves...

My father always told me that his parents wouldn't speak to him or his grandkids for being a JW. Now, here I am... I figure out it's a cult but can't or just haven't yet taken the same stand... I feel torn...

Fatfreek

Cognac,

There are several ways to look at this as you already know -- and are languishing over.

If you want to choose a way that would bring more anguish to the Society, then stay in, bite your tongue when at meetings, and attempt to work from the inside. They hate insiders, I suspect worse than overt apostates because they can't do anything about them as they continue to ply their influence and spin every little chance they get.

When outside, you won't be able to do that. Plus, you'll have the loss of contact with family.

Yes, I've heard the honesty argument. I say, when dealing with them, use their own teaching about honesty and be "truthful to those that deserve the truth".

The following is from the Aid book (the replacement words it a bit different);

Len
ps: from one who wishes, at times, that he had worked from the inside back in 1977.

flipper

COGNAC- Welcome to the club . Many of us feel this way when we are making the decision on how to exit the witnesses. You have to do what is best for your situation. Many of us in your situation choose to fade as to keep ties with family . It has worked for me to an extent , some of my family knows my views and do not try to change me , still respect me. Some family doesn't . You may find that too. A person doesn't have to sacrifice their entire family ; just because you differ with them in beliefs. You don't have to choose black or white - many times life is full of gray situations

sspo

Take your time Cognac in making your decision, it's a heavy one to make.

In due time it will be clear of what steps to take for your situation.

Gopher

I don't admire this spot "between a rock and a hard place" in which you and others on the board find yourselves. It was easier for me, I was kicked out. I had to make the sudden break.

After being out a while, I realized I lost what I thought were a lot of good friends. But if the kind of friendship they're offering is based on my obedience to a publishing and real-estate corporation known as the WTS, I don't want those kind of friends any more. I have better friends.

I know family is harder to replace than friends. And you want your family's love. You have to think about the kind of love that you'll get from them -- is it the kind that can exist without always talking Witness stuff? Then maybe it'll be good to hang onto. But if it's totally conditional things like 'meeting attendance', etc., then it'll totally drain you to hang onto that sort of family love.

journey-on

Fatfreek nailed it. These are serious times for the WTS. I think they are going to clamp down hard on the r&f, and

some of you that still have an "in" should keep an eye on the internal struggles taking place. If you d.a. or get d.f.'d

for apostasy, you won't be able to keep an eye out on your loved ones and plant the hardy seeds that can take

hold and grow. You need to be one of those smart savvy insiders that can WATCH and listen and speak the right

words when the time is right. Play it smart, Cognac.

SPAZnik

cognac,

i used to feel some confusion about line drawing with my family and myself too.

when i first left the dubs, i felt fairly shaky and defensive with certain family (whether

these were in or out). then I decided that i just believe in being as loving a daughter/sister/etc as I am able

and this includes being honest with myself about when i'm capable of talking with them

knowing certain subjects may come up. i do what i can to only interact when i'm in a good place.

i think the main shift may have been i stopped worrying about WANTING their love

and just focussed on GIVING my love. it's a lighter load. i also try to keep mindful that

i allowed myself the freedom to stay in or leave at my own pace and i do everything i can

to allow that same elbow room for my loved ones. :) it's a process.

Mickey mouse

Hey Cognac,

I feel exactly the same as you. I swing between the two extremes. There are times when I hate myself for living the lie. When you're raised as a dub it's hard to get away from the idea that a person of integrity stands up for what they believe (i.e not "the truth"). On the other hand as others have said you can do more from the inside than you can on the out. Think of it as non-theocratic warfare.

R.Crusoe

Interesting auras of life are up for consideration within your question!

Does one be up front, honest and keep away?

Knowing ones own infrastructure is hard wired to all their circuits makes this a very complex scenario! As soon as you break free they will close ranks and cut the theing that makes humans uniquely able to bond emotinally socially and intellectually - COMMUNICATION!

They use the principle in the Bible where allegedly god confused the nations after building a tower so they were unable to communicate and work collaboratively! They use this against 'leavers' who are far more honest than they are and wouldn't enforce such discompassionate drivel on others intended deliberately to isolate and cut their networks!

Does one stay and play ball?

I think this is part of the WT joker societies infrastructure!

I'm sure many are in it for all sorts of reasons having little to do with the WT framework! Essentially the reality is a far cry from WT imagery and why many who fall into the trap of pure belief end up as dazed and confused inside it as a child still believing in father christmas when everyone else just follows the tradition!

So sincere followers are as likely as anyone to sincerely fade and suffer even further dazing and confusion as to wtf life is about after falling for WT answers and their CONVENTIONal display of WT dictat and pretentiousness.

JW reality is null and void! Pretentiousness is abundant! Leaders lead the WT children to santas grotto thinking about how naieve they are and dreaming of the wizard behind the curtain they already met as if doing them a favor!

JW reality is nothing like WT imaginary logic!

So you must take your choice based upon your inner intuition and not anything I or anyone else says that leaves you unsure!

The only uncertain actions you must take must come from within!

They will not all be right for you but they will be you being who you are and help you grow!

But whether you grow into a solitary is an unknown because certain paths could empower JWs to influence your loved ones away from you with their mind poison! It gives them the power trips they live on and thrive upon! It is all the WT provides as substitute for worldly schisms and scheming! So if you are playing a game of life to win then maybe you will do something I never have and employ your brain in a gameplay! Actually live a sureality as reality! Ironically that means you pretend to be something you hate for as long as you stay in their game!

I have no qualms with any who take either option since as we all know - the WT is an old master at cutting all options!

Best wishes!

Borgia

Hi Cognac,

Making a stand can be done in many ways. Everyone of us has a different situation and has to consider how best to proceed. I would like to draw your attention to Martin Luther. He lived in in interesting time frame. And there are a few interesting circumstances which may be helpful in considering how best to proceed:

During a vast period of time within the Roman Catholic tradition there have existed calls to return to the basics of the faith. Most of these calls were easily silenced by declaration of heresy, a bit like declaring apostasy within the JW. However, in the late middle ages a new movement had taken hold: Devotio Moderna of which Tomas a Kempis is a well known adherent and had been of great influence to Erasmus and the likes.

The political map was quite intriguing. The Holy Roman Empire was a almagation of territories owned by counts, dukes, bishops, free imperial cities, principalities etc. The crown did not have very much to say. By converting to another tradition, a group of ruler was able to fend of the emperor, hence the Schmalkaldic League and it's predecessor the League of Torgau. The difference between the two was military capability. The latter was a force to be reckoned with.

Luther's ideas were easily spread thanks to the new invention of printing press.

Trade and easy access of money for bankers, traders and princes.

Conflicts between the pope and the emperor created a vacuum of power and time to organise resistance to the catholic power house.

There may be more details of interest, however, it shows that dissent will grow under the right circumstances, in this case corruption, decadency of the cloth, prize money, etc.

Cheers

Borgia

Where do you draw the line???

Share this