by V 27 Replies latest watchtower bible
sunday morning is about to become meaningful as i pour a hot fresh cuppa and settle in to learn more of the truth.....
thank you in advance.... i have not been disappointed yet when it comes to reading the "study articles'' with a new perspective and clearer vision
a long winded bttt
this study was good in some areas in that it stressed the importance of spirituality.
However, what freaked me out was the scriptural reference from Isiah that was supposed to be a prophecy,, the paragraph qutoed "This is what the LORD says: "The products of Egypt and the merchandise of Cush, [a] and those tall Sabeans— they will come over to you and will be yours; they will trudge behind you, coming over to you in chains.
Some how this turned into a prophecy, seems like any little weird scripture has two meanings, but what they left out was the rest....." They will bow down before you and plead with you, saying, 'Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other god.' "
They will BOW DOWN ......no other god......
WTF, this is crazy, do they actually think they should be bowed down to and that they are a god?
The fact that this was ignored in the WT ( even though I had my hand up 15 times to bring this out) is crazy.
Seriously, someone needs to write a QFR on this, do they feel that this scripture applies to them in its entirety, if so, how should they be bowed down to and what sort of god are they, if it only partly applies, who is the other half refering to?
this study was good in some areas in that it stressed the importance of spirituality.
However, what freaked me out was the scriptural reference from Isiah that was supposed to be a prophecy,, the paragraph qutoed "This is what the LORD says: "The products of Egypt and the merchandise of Cush, [a] and those tall Sabeans— they will come over to you and will be yours; they will trudge behind you, coming over to you in chains.
Some how this turned into a prophecy, seems like any little weird scripture has two meanings, but what they left out was the rest....." They will bow down before you and plead with you, saying, 'Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other god.' "
They will BOW DOWN ......no other god......
WTF, this is crazy, do they actually think they should be bowed down to and that they are a god?
The fact that this was ignored in the WT ( even though I had my hand up 15 times to bring this out) is crazy.
Seriously, someone needs to write a QFR on this, do they feel that this scripture applies to them in its entirety, if so, how should they be bowed down to and what sort of god are they, if it only partly applies, who is the other half refering to?
I swear i know this Don Cameron from someplace. he is from new england someplace? maybe ?
No, he is a US Citizen and I believe lives in the New England area. Some one on the "Channel C" website asked him this and what kind of doctorate he had. Turns out if I remeber correctly that he is a Doctor of Chiropractory. His book was great, extremely logical and objective.
As I entered the Hall today a jolly elder engaged me in conversation (which is nice) and as he chatted on he said "Lovely Watchtower today, we are really close to the end, I am sure"...What can you say without being rumbled? "We shall see " I mumbled but he paid no heed. Others seemed to find great comfort and motivation in the article ..............??????????
Don has done a very thorough job in discussing this, but lets all have an answer..
Para 1] When Christ inspected the ‘slave’ in 1918, he found those anointed ones on earth to be faithful in providing spiritual ‘food at the proper time.’ Hence, Jesus, the Master, was pleased thereafter to appoint them ‘over all his belongings.’
Hmmm...how pleased would Christ have really been if their fantasy were true?
As a group the "food" they dished up was that C T Russell was the "faithful and wise servant,& that Christ had returned in 1884, so they were wrong about the the 2 most fundamental points. Couple that with basing predictions on the Great Pyramid ,celebrating Christmas and birthdays and bein less than neutral in WW1, and you have a group no different to any other, which is exactly what they were.
Actually I always puzzled about the strange contradictatory comments about the Bible Students at that time. Often they are praised and described as "faithful" so they were honored by The Lord on his return. In other books they were said to be so badly lacking that they were punished by being allowed to go off to jail. Compare this quote:
w72 2/1 pp. 79-80 par. 11 Fully Accepting the Challenge of Jehovah’s Service ***
Notice how Jehovah describes his woman in Isaiah’s prophecy as being abandoned, hurt in spirit with his face concealed from her. That indicates a period of displeasure in her. That is why, in the eleventh verse, he addresses her: "O woman afflicted, tempest-tossed, uncomforted." The Naomi remnant came into a condition like that, particularly in the year 1918, when they were, in a sense, exiled from Jehovah God’s favor. In that year Jehovah God came to his temple suddenly, accompanied by the messenger of the covenant, the Lord Jesus Christ. He examined the remnant here upon earth; he was displeased with them. (Mal. 3:1, 2) For a time they were not fully accepting the challenge of Jehovah’s Kingdom service that had opened up to them. They were holding back, through fear of man and were not properly keeping themselves "unspotted from the world." (Jas. 1:27, AuthorizedVersion) Therefore Jehovah let them go into bondage to Babylon the Great and her political associates. During this time much persecution and abuse were heaped upon them culminating in the arrest and imprisonment of the Society’s headquarters representatives in 1918, on the false charge of espionage. This meant that all of the universal organization of God, God’s woman, would be affected by his displeasure, and the prophecy foretells that the entire organization would be as "a wife left entirely
Usually? O k so we win some . That is quite an admission
The rest of the article lapsed into the fantasy of the New World and resurrection and painted word pictures of speculation to motivate the flock . I have been through all that, and experienced the disappointment and the anger when I realized it was make believe!
Don's comments put it better than I would.. Thank you..
BTW it is nice to have a printed text of the article again.......
ED :Still having trouble with quotes boxes...
Good comments and interesting analysis Don Cameron!
Here are some additional comments I needed to get of my chest:
par.2 first sentence. So, if the GB says go jump...we are supposed to say: how high...
par 6: Isa. 45:14 NWT reads: This is what Jehovah has said: “The unpaid laborers of Egypt and the merchants of E·thi·o´pi·a and the Sa·be´ans, tall men, will themselves come over even to you, and yours they will become. Behind you they will walk; in fetters they will come over, and to you they will bow down. To you they will pray, [saying,] ‘Indeed God is in union with you, and there is no one else; there is no [other] God.’”
According to the context this is about Cyrus.....Now if this text really applies to the GB / FDS - should I conclude it is ok to pray to the GB in order they will convey that glory to God. Are they the middle man for the Great Crowd (it would certainly tie in with their self serving explanation of 1 Tim 2:5,6 where they insist on Jesus only mediating/ intercessing between annointed and God instead of mankind and God.
Compare Phil 2:10 : 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
and 2 Cor. 2:14 - But thanks be to God who always leads us in a triumphal procession in company with the Christ and makes the odor of the knowledge of him perceptible through us in every place!)
par 8: Zach 8:23 - accompany is something completely different from submitting
Par 9: Gal 5:22, 23 - O and now the great crowd has evidence of Gods Spirit working in them by sublimation of fruits of the spirit.....why are they not integrated into the new covenant? how do they know that it is perhaps not popular to exhibit these qualities. Given the amount of self help books etc I would wager it to be unpopular to do it the JW way!
Par 11: Buzz....words like: mostly, sometimes, often, probably = fearmongering.
Par 12: concentrate on your christian activities. We had 5 comments about disliking to go preaching but yet stubbornly going on with it. Maybe sing of the times.....O yes, of course: DO MORE.
Par 13: when people are resurrected they are imperfect human beings still......
Par 15. Note that the better resurrection is not expedited on....just on the joy part....Let's see, My joy is bigger than yours.....No mine is bigger because I was faithful....come on...
Par 16 about the bible being part of the books used for determining whether the living are worthy of eternal live. Interesting since John 3:16 - 18 says the following:
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. 18 He that exercises faith in him is not to be judged. He that does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
But of course the GB has to put their own qualifications in there....
By the way....why would God use a book that has evidently been guarded, copied and errorred by apostates (2nd century onward)
par.18: Then—at last—they will be counted worthy
It seems the requirements for the Great Crowd are way more difficult than those of the truly annointed, according the the WT that is. I would say this goes against John 1: 12, Gal.3:27 and Rom.4:23 - 5:5.
So basically, what the JW theology says it is not Jesus sacrifice that leads to eternal life but the submission to the GB/FDS......
Cheers
Borgia
Good going, Don and V! You sure did thump home those points - not letting one misleading statement pass. I'm so glad I slept in this morning - I couldn't have stomached sitting through this one.
I thought it was interesting, and a bit sad that Noah was clearly the front runner in "person I most want to meet" category, rather than Christ (apparently a privilege denied to the Great Crowd).
Here are a couple of points that came to mind while I was listening to this.
Point one:
From the study: "The anointed were supposedly approved to provide 'spiritual food at the proper time'--through what means?"
According to "Isaiah's Prophecy II", p. 228:
The prophet Daniel foretold that during this “time of the end,” the anointed would be blessed with
an abundance of true knowledge and spiritual insight. (Daniel 12:3, 4)
Such insight has enabled them to spearhead the greatest educational campaign in history, spreading divine teaching in all the earth. (Matthew 24:14) At the same time, such insight has helped them to
see the difference between true religion and false. Isaiah 54:12 mentions “boundaries of delightsome
stones.”
Since 1919, Jehovah has given the anointed an ever clearer understanding of the boundaries—the lines
of spiritual demarcation—setting them apart from false religion and ungodly elements of the world. ( Ezekiel 44:23; John 17:14; James 1:27 )
They are thus set apart as God’s own people.—1 Peter 2:9.
YET, according to the May 1, 2007 QFR,
"genuine anointed Christians do not demand special attention. They do not believe that their being of the anointed gives them special 'insights,' beyond what even some experienced members of the great crowd may have."
So what is it, do the "anointed", AKA the "Faithful Discreet Slave", have special insight or not?
If they don't, then how can they claim that their interpretation holds more weight than anyone else's?
If they do have special insight, then wouldn't it be imperative for "the anointed" contribute to the preparation of the "spiritual food"? Are they, as a whole, even consulted?
How does "the anointed" equate with the "governing body"?
Or do SOME of the anointed inherently have special spiritual insight, while others of the anointed do not? Who makes the call on which of the anointed is greater than the rest? Christ?
Point two:
"When Christ inspected the 'slave' in 1918, he found those anointed ones on earth to be faithful in providing spiritual "food at the proper time.'"
This happened ninety years ago. Assuming that one would have to be at least thirty to gain the "anointing" (following the pattern of Christ's anointing), any anointed person alive at that time would be at least 120 years old today. Let's say it's safe to assume that all those who were anointed in 1918-1919 are already dead.
How can today's leadership lay claim the position and authority SPECIFICALLY granted to those "anointed ones on earth" in 1918, WHO ARE NOW DEAD?
