I posted this on another thread and realized that it was really off topic, so I made it a separate topic because I would really like to read your thoughts about this...
Does anyone know if any reasons are given by the WTBTS about why they feel it is such an important part of their teachings to keep guessing about dates and the years things are going to happen?
It seems that it adds nothing to whatever they believe about the bible, and it has only served to create such confusion among their members over the years. They have been doing this since the 1800's, over and over getting it wrong and having to retract or change a previous date. So why do it? There must be a motive behind it, otherwise they would not continue such a practice or exercise in numerology that has provided such a bounty of inaccurate information.
Why not just focus on the key teachings of the bible and leave out all the guess work? Even if they continue to believe, remarkably, that it is NOT guess work at all, but dates given by the direction of the holy spirit, and even if they understand that the holy spirit is just confused....why not keep those dates to themselves as that "faithful and discrete slave" who is the holder and un-folder of all bible secrets?
That would be entirely acceptable and in keeping with their standard practice of dropping "hints" given by traveling members of the governing body or other leaders, "hints" and "clues" that cause the members to speculate on their own, and gives the clear message that there is in fact a lot of information that they have up their sleeve from God that they just haven't shared yet because the members aren't ripe enough to hear it. So why not do the same thing with the dates and just "hint" that there are times and seasons that things are going to happen, and God himself provided the governing body with a stone doomsday calendar, only they are not going to share it because it might cause people to stop focusing on the importance of the ransom sacrifice and get completely caught up in when to expect the world to end?
It seems amazingly foolish to purposely include an unnecessary practice in a religion that also claims to have the only truth in existence, a practice that continues decade after decade to subtract in a great way from any other truths they may be preaching that actually ARE in the bible.
So why do they do it? Is it a tool to motivate, like a threat of sorts to keep the members too afraid to quit when Armageddon is always right around the corner? Or do they really have the same mind set as Russell only without the Pyramids?
I would really like to hear your thoughts about this.
Why Guess About Dates At All?
by Pickled 75 Replies latest jw friends
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Pickled
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JeffT
You're right, there isn't any good, scriptural reason to push dates. I've made up my mind that the next time a JW comes to my door to tell me the end is near, my response is going to be: "What difference does it make?" A Christian should be living the best llife he can because it is the right thing to do. How far away the reward is shouldn't enter into the motivation at all.
However, the WTBS needs a whip to flog the sheep into line, and this is the one they use. Whenever they're talking about such things (as Blondie is fond of pointing out) the reward is not that they've done the right thing by upholding Jehovah (supposedly what all of human history is about) but rather its about are you going to live in Paradise.
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Pickled
That's a good point JT. It seems sad in a way that the leaders don't seem to mind that their unnecessary practice of predicting specific dates has caused their followers to become more concerned with escaping death than they are of living life. The governing body seems to have handled the idea of "faithfulness" the same way. Instead of faithfulness being something that fills you with joy, it is actually measured on a time card and scrutinized under threat of discipline or appearing to be spiritually weak.
I really don't know if the members of this religion have realized that they take great pride in the fact that they do not preach about hell, while at the same time focusing so intently on exactly what year a type of hell on earth will occur. I have compared some protestant religions with the JW, and the JW seem to have an even greater focus on a coming destruction than the protestants have about hell.
Should either of those be the priority? The part about "I came to bring you life" seems to be an after thought. It starts at the top, and in this particular religion it starts and also stops at the top. The reason why this is a fact is because this religion is not designed at all in a way that leaves the individual congregations with any type of autonomy whatsoever. -
neverendingjourney
In large part the date speculation is a reflection of the origin of this religion. It’s a part of who they are. The question is like asking why Catholics continue to believe the Pope is the head of the church or why Mormons continue to believe there is another testament of Jesus Christ.
Charles T. Russell’s movement was heavily influenced by Adventist preachers such as John Aquila Brown and N.H. Barbour (whom he co-published a religious journal with). These men, in turn, were influenced by William Miller. All of these men fashioned their messages around the setting of dates. William Miller in particular achieved great fame by claiming Bible prophecy proved the end of the world would come in 1844. After 1844 came and went without anything happening, the “great disappointment,” other preachers continued Miller’s legacy by tweaking the dates here and there and claiming other “invisible” events had actually occurred.
Charles T. Russell emerged out of this tradition. His pet dates—1799, 1874, 1914—were all borrowed from post-Millerite preachers. Russell slowly severed his connection with Adventist leaders, but the spirit of William Miller remained strong in his ministry. Just as William Miller before him, Russell was able to reel in a great number of followers by claiming that the Bible proved that Armageddon would commence on a certain date. This time the selected year was 1914. This year came and went without any signs of Armageddon, and the same patter repeated itself. Russell’s followers adjusted his beliefs and claimed something invisible had happened that year. After Russell’s death, Joseph Rutherford was able to hang on to a chunk of Russell’s followers as he continued the tradition of date setting. In particular, he claimed great things would happen in 1925. Of course, this date was a disappointment as well. After Rutherford, Fred Franz continued the date-setting legacy well into the latter part of the 20th century. He was behind the 1975 debacle.
Date setting is a part of who the Jehovah’s Witnesses are. Now, that’s not to say they won’t eventually abandon this approach. In fact, they have been very cautious about setting dates ever since the 1975 fiasco. The tweaks to their eschatological structure since then have been to do away with firm dates, not to add any new ones. For instance, they did away with the literal approach to the “generation” that essentially meant that Armageddon would arrive not much later than 1994 (the literal 1914 generation would live to see Armageddon, a literal generation being 70 or 80 years; 80 years after 1914=1994). Most recently they did away with the 1935 date for the sealing of the anointed, opening the door for “new” anointed to pop up at any time. The year 1935 played a crucial role in their doctrine in terms of keeping Armageddon near. It was taught that there were no new anointed after 1935, only “replacements,” and there had to be at least some anointed on the Earth when Armageddon came, so Armageddon couldn’t be too far off.
It remains to be seen, however, whether the lack of any new dates is a result of a shift in JW leadership mindset or whether it reveals a lack of leadership. Personally, I think the governing body is gridlocked. Assuming the 2/3 arrangement Ray Franz talked about in Crisis of Conscience is still in effect, seven of the nine governing body members would have to agree to set any new dates or timetables. Since these men have been led to believe that Jehovah works through them to reveal truths to his people, the likelihood is that most of these men have their own personal pet doctrines that they’d like to push through the governing body. Anyone of those men would have to convince six of the other eight members to side with them to get any new timetables in place. Moreover, there is no one there in the tradition of Fred Franz (who was viewed as chief theologian during his time) to push through major doctrinal changes.
Date setting has been a key characteristic of Jehovah’s Witnesses for their entire history. It helped to cement the revolving door nature of the religion. Desperate people seeking relief from life’s troubles are reeled in as they set their sights on a certain date. The date comes to pass and nothing happens. Those people eventually become disappointed and leave, but an entirely new group of people has been recruited with sights set on an entirely new date, and the cycle repeats itself.
This is a pivotal time in JW history. The JWs must either re-interpret their prophetic framework again and start the cycle over anew, or go in a more mainstream direction. The only other choice is to do nothing and atrophy. They can’t continue to keep people within their oppressive system without a firm date for them to look forward to. Most people can live their lives under the JW system of sacrifice for a few years or decades at most until they burn out. Without a big date on the horizon to usher in Armageddon, their membership on their own will begin to relax their standards. Jehovah’s Witnesses will begin to tire out and become more and more lax about rigidly following the strict rules that are in place. Unfortunately for JW leadership, their current rule-by-committee system does not allow for much change. It encourages stagnation. The results are quite obvious. All we need to do is step foot in a kingdom hall and see row after row of disillusioned faces, kids rejecting their parents’ religion, and hypocritical tyrants basking in the glory of their leadership positions. Time will tell what the future holds in store for this sorry excuse for a religion. -
MOG
there is a watchtower that explains its because of the EARGERNESS I will post it in a minute
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MOG
[Though we had false expectations in times past, who can blame us for being over-anxious?] "It is easy for the established churches of Christendom and other people to criticize Jehovah's Witnesses because their publications have, at times, stated that certain things could take place on certain dates. But is not such line of action in harmony with Christ's injunction to `keep on the watch'?" ..."But is it not far preferable to make some mistakes because of overeagerness to see God's purposes accomplished...?" WT 12/1/84, p. 17,18
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Pickled
Neverendingjourney, thank you for posting such a clear and detailed description of the why behind the what. I have printed it out and am going to reread it. I understand now why there is such a focus on the dates, and why it is built in to their religion.
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neverendingjourney
MOG,
Ray Franz does a masterful job of tearing that logic to shreds in his book, Crisis of Conscience. He shows how time after time the pages of the Watch Tower referred to those dates as being "God's dates." They used terms like "indisputable," "absolutely and unqualifiedly correct," and "incontestably established." What's more, they vilified those who doubted the certainty of those predictions, disparaging them as "spiritually weak" or as part of the "evil slave" class. In fact, doubting the accuracy of the 1914 date today might get you disfellowshipped, yet they sit back and categorize their failed expectations as mere "overeagerness" and attribute the failures to God as if God would somehow use failed prophecies to motivate his people. The effect that these dates had on their followers is completely ignored. They don't apologize to the couples who decided not to have children as a result of their "overeagerness." Neither do they apologize to all of the people who failed to save up for retirement or forewent a college education to serve this religious organization. It's a testament to the dominion these men have over their followers that the vast majority of Jehovah's Witnesses simply accept without qualification their dishonest explanations for their past failures.
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Awakened07
I think it's perfectly logical that a Bible-based religion would try to come up with dates for the End. Biblical prophecies are sometimes rather specific, even with explanations of what the symbols mean, how long the time periods were etc., so they have something to work from.
In some cases, to get even the prophecies that were supposed to be fulfilled back in biblical times to have come true, one has to stretch the time period of the prophecy several hundred years after the wrathful prophecy was exacted, and all the people it was intended for was long since dead. So stretching prophecies to fit with some kind of fulfillment within a thousand years or so is no biggie from the get-go.
The end was 'very soon' two and three thousand years ago as well. Some of Jesus' prophecies didn't come to pass then, so what's the logical conclusion? That he was simply wrong? No, not to a Bible believer. It must mean he was talking about a future event. When though, when two thousand years have passed? No wonder they try to find out. We were promised a second coming after all. Since the Bible is the only book they can go by on these matters, it's easy to understand that they want to extrapolate on the prophecies that are already there (second fulfillment), to come up with a date that coincides with our lifetime ('cause it would suck if that date turned out to be two hundred years from now... it's always in our lifetime, notice that?).
That, and you gather a larger crowd faster when you give specific dates. Well - for a time at least. People tend to tire of the boy who cries 'wolf!' for several decades.
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neverendingjourney
Pickled,
I'm not sure if you're familiar with the book "Crisis of Conscience." It was written by Ray Franz, a former member of the Jehovah's Witnesses governing body. It sheds a great deal of light on how the Jehovah's Witnesses actually operate. Ray also delves into and explains the true history of the Jehovah's Witnesses. I highly recommend the book if you want to understand why this religion works the way it does. It's available on his commentary press website as a .pdf download for 8 dollars.
In the alternative, you can use wikipedia to find out a lot about JW history. I would recommend that you look up entries for Charles Taze Russell, N.H. Barbour, William Miller, and Joseph Rutherford and Jehovah's Witnesses. The information there is not laid out as well as it is in Crisis of Conscience, but it's a start.