Defining God and Atheism

by DT 24 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  DT

  I'm a nontheist, atheist and agnostic. I guess I like the term nontheist best, even though it basically means the same as atheist. To me, nontheist simply says what I am not, while atheist has come to represent what someone is, at least in the minds of some people. I don't mind saying what I am. I just wish the term atheist had a more consistent definition in the minds of those who use it. I also feel that the terms atheist and agnostic overlap, so I believe both apply to me even though both can include views that are not my own.

  Part of the problem is that all these terms are defined in relationship to the concept of god, another term that is poorly defined. I wish theists would better define the word god. However, most theists only believe in one god or a specific collection of gods, so they don't feel a need to use a term that is much broader than they need for their purposes.

  It is easy for me to declare that I am not a believer in Yahweh or Zeus. I would even be willing to say that I think the existence of either is very improbable. It's harder for me to express my view of the possibility of a god or gods in general, when I don't know what kind of hypothetical lifeforms would qualify as a god. For example, what if some alien planted primitive one celled organisms on earth that later involved into us and all other life on this planet? Would that alien be a god? In a sense it's not very important. It's just a matter of definition. On the other hand, the terms we use can indicate our stand on that and countless other scenarios.

  I'm just cautious about turning my ignorance into the illusion of knowledge or turning absence of evidence into evidence of absence. I think gods are improbable, but I am well aware that a small portion of the things I regard as unlikely may be true. I am confident that there are many unseen mysteries that we have not even thought of. I would hate for something as mundane as terminology to interfere with my ability to be open to new possibilities.

  What are your thoughts? Is anybody else concerned about how we define things like god and atheism?
• 

  IP_SEC

  To me, nontheist simply says what I am not, while atheist has come to represent what someone is, at least in the minds of some people.

  This doesnt make sense grammatically.

  I AM an atheist is the same as I AM NOT a theist.

  Its just like saying: I AM smart or I AM NOT stupid.

  Now I agree with you definitions are important. Without them words are just strings of letters with no meaning.

  Atheist: Does not believe in gods. Cannot really say there is no god. Cannot prove there is no god anymore than the toothfairy cant be disproven.

  Nontheist: Does not believe in gods. Cannot really say there is no god. Cannot prove there is no god anymore than the toothfairy cant be disproven.
• 

  DT

  To me, nontheist simply says what I am not, while atheist has come to represent what someone is, at least in the minds of some people.

  This doesnt make sense grammatically.

  I AM an atheist is the same as I AM NOT a theist.

  There is a subtle difference between claiming to be an atheist and claiming to not be a theist. Historically, atheists were generally regarded as having a belief in the nonexistence of god or opposed to the idea of there being a god. Now, many people regard atheism as a broader term, including anyone who isn't a theist. Still the term carries some unfortunate connotations. I would prefer it if nontheist and atheist were strictly synonymous, but that's not how some people see it.
• 

  IP_SEC

  Historically, atheists were generally regarded as having a belief in the nonexistence of god or opposed to the idea of there being a god.There is a subtle difference between claiming to be an atheist and claiming to not be a theist.

  Well no there is no subtle difference unless by claiming to be a nontheist you are at the same time claiming to be a deist, or perhaps an agnostic.

  Now, many people regard atheism as a broader term, including anyone who isn't a theist. Still the term carries some unfortunate connotations.

  This is why definitions are so important. Having varying opinions on what a word means is just as bad as having no definition at all.

  I would prefer it if nontheist and atheist were strictly synonymous, but that's not how some people see it.

  Unless nontheist is caveated with deism, then they are synonymous.
• 

  Gopher

  I really don't mind being called atheist. I even frequently attend atheist monthly meetings.

  But sometimes, to keep it more neutral, I might call my self a non-believer. Some people flinch less when you say that, even though it really means exactly the same as atheism.
• 

  VoidEater

  I agree, DT. Atheist and Agnostic used to have different connotations from how I see them used today.

  There is a distinction between stating what I am versus what I am not. I think Thomas More ("A Man for All Seasons") gives an interesting perspective on this, in a way.

  "I am smart" is not the same as "I am not stupid". I can be not smart and not stupid. There is a vast middle ground. Maybe I'm just average, neither particularly smart nor particularly stupid.

  "I am not convinced" is not the same as "I deny". There is a vast middle ground. There is possibility. There is room for discussion and consideration.

  Tell me what you mean by "God" and I can tell you whether I believe in it or not.

  I like Gopher's approach.
• 

  real one

  what?
• 

  Gopher

  Real One,

  It's hard to define atheism (non-adherence to God) because so many Gods have been believed in and invented. Many gods who were fervently worshipped in the past are now retired on the scrap heap of history.

  I work alongside many Hindus, who all tend to worship Shiva along with other gods of their choice. There are many gods in native American culture. Islam has Allah. Christendom has Jesus/his father/the trinity. Jehovah's Witnesses have "Jehovah". I know I'm missing quite a few other gods that are out there.

  In reality, you are atheist to many of these gods -- maybe to all but one. I'm just an atheist to one more god than you are. I reject the God of the Bible for the same reason you might reject Native American gods.
• 

  skyking

  I am were you are at not believing in a personal GOD that needs our worship. But not disagreeing with a gos or gods that might have seeds of life on earth.
• 

  LouBelle

  agnostic and atheism are 2 different things? yes

  I quickly want to compare god and love. Now shakespear was a very clever poet when he wrote 116 sonnet about love - instead of trying to define what love was, he chose to define what love was not.

  I believe that each persons' path/journey is personal and therefore your interpretaion of god would be a personal one - not the christian god or whatever other gods - should be what your god means to you.