sexism

by teejay 25 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  teejay

  My sister sent me this webpage: http://www.lizybordom.com/SLEEPING%20TIGER/page_three /

  Without boring you with the political aspects of the U.S./Afghanistan dialog that ensued, I'd like to see how you feel about something else we talked about.

  About the two photos at the top of the webpage, she said:

  i mean really, a swimsuit as a competition? who's she trying
  to kid? her lack of clothing is male inspired just as much as
  miss afghanistan's abundance of clothing. if she chose to compete
  dressed as miss afghanistan, because she has the freedom to do so,
  she ain't scoring well, so....
  actually, this is rather offensive, and very sexist.

  To get a second female opinion, I had my wife read the series of mails that went back and forth between my sister and me on this issue. Not surprisingly, wife agreed with sister.

  I disagreed.

  My opinion is: the swimsuit competition at the Miss America pagaent isn't sexist at all. I said that nearly every man alive has no problem whatsoever viewing the female form -- the fewer the clothes the better; that most women who had a view similar to my sister's (and my wife's) were either Black or older (therefore more conservative) or overweight and a little insecure about their own appearance.

  Otherwise, I think most women have no problem with the display of the female body.

  Comments?
• 

  Seven

  The swimsuit competition imo is not sexist. Falling in the lifestyles/fitness catagory it accounts for only 15% of the total score in the prelims and 10% in the finals.

  I have no problem with displaying of the female body as most women don't. Off topic: What I have a problem with is men's swimwear(mostly American)and their hideous baggyass, noodle-swingin', down to their knees boxer style trunks. YukFu!!! Get rid of those!! Let's see some upper thighs and butts!! We like seeing the "male form" displayed too. Come on guys.

  seven
• 

  DannyBear

  Seven,

  It seems as though women/men who are attractive, who are secure in their own appearance, are far less likely to take the 'feminist' view of such matters.

  It has been my observation the loudest 'feminists', voicing opposition are generally not candidates for pin-ups, to say the least.

  Danny
  Ps. Of course there always exceptions to this, but overall, that seems to be the norm.
• 

  Andee

  I suppose I agree with your wife and sister to a point.

  Women dressing scantily has always been for the benefit of males. Let's face it, a woman's displayed sexuality is extremely powerful for the visual oriented male. A male can be "inspired" to do things that otherwise he might not do. Now, before feminists get their NOW cards in a wringer, I am not talking about rape, etc. I'm thinking more of the simple act of opening doors, shelling out hundreds of dollars at strip clubs, buy expensive gifts, etc.

  A bit off topic, but I remember watching a segment on Dateline about how men would stop and help an attractive woman in a mini-skirt when her car had broken down. Yet, would ignore a more plain-looking woman that was modestly dressed.

  The Islamic command calling for the covering of women is to "hide" her sexuality. I know in the Koran it is stated for a woman to "cover her beauty". Moderate Islamic countries take this to mean just the covering of the hair. Obviously, the Taliban takes this verse to the extreme.

  As long as beauty and sexuality is power, attractive young western women are going to use it to benefit themselves. These benefits come in the form of social and career status, which boils down to money.

  Sexist? Perhaps. My opinion is that the jury is still out on it.
  I really think that young woman just don't think about that or understand what they are doing. In fact, the power of their beauty and sexuality is not realized until it starts to fade. Hence, all the plastic surgery and "youth" creams, etc.

  However, I do agree with LizyBordom, who I know is a attractive woman, that at least western woman have the choice.

  Andee
• 

  Seeker

  Of course the swimsuit competition is sexist. How could it be otherwise? There is no choice in the matter, the rules say you come out in a swimsuit and you are then judged according to the way your body looks and the way you carry yourself. Now let's look up "sexism":

  1. Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.
  2. Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.

  Point proven. It is a form of discrimination the way society judges women based on their appearance, and these competitions perpetuate this nonsense. So does Hollywood in general, as it happens. And magazines. And the fashion industry. All are guilty of objectifying humans based on superficial qualities, and discriminate according to totally subjective societal rules.

  The second definition also applies. These competitions promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.

  It doesn't matter if you find some "pretty" women who are in favor of these competitions. You'll find many Afghani women who defend the rules they are subject to. In both cases, societal standards of superficiality are being applied to women by men. In the Western world, women are not forced into these competitions of course, and that is one key difference. But even in the Western world women are judged unfairly in every day life based on biological difference over which they have little control. That is sexism.
• 

  DannyBear

  Andee,

  As it seems to be the norm with you, your comments come across as very reasoned and full of common sense. I like your style Andee.

  ***As long as beauty and sexuality is power, attractive young western women are going to use it to benefit themselves. These benefits come in the form of social and career status, which boils down to money.***

  Power is the word. I have observed beautiful women ever since I was about 10yr old. My first crush was on the wife of my brother-in-law's, brother's wife. I can distincly remember the awe, the feeling of heart rending trepidation, my heart skipping a beat, when in Diane's presence. One day while riding in the back of her husbands 'cool' (I think 57 chev) convertable, I jumped up from behind and kissed her on the cheek, right in front of god and her husband. She was so cool about the whole thing, she had the power to shoot me down...she didn't..she smiled and turned to me and said..'Iam very pleased you like me so much, its just to bad Iam so much older than you'...what a classy response, she must of known I spooning over her, and that I needed to get a different percpective.

  I did, but that little experience with a beautiful woman, really taught me, its also the beauty inside that gives 'real power'.

  To this day there is no bigger turn-off to me, than to witness even plain looking women exercise their power over men...by being really nasty to men who show appreciation for their gender. Of course obscene or aggressive 'stalking' not included.

  It appears that many women have experienced the more negative attention, than the healthy. So it is understandable, but very unatractive none the less.

  Enjoyed your comments.

  Danny
• 

  DannyBear

  Wow Seeker

  ***Of course the swimsuit competition is sexist.***

  No ifs, ands, or buts, with your views eh? Must be nice to have a handel on what women think, so clearly, so confident.

  I say you need a lesson or two in presenting your ideas vs absolutes.

  Danny
• 

  Seeker

  Wow Seeker

  ***Of course the swimsuit competition is sexist.***

  No ifs, ands, or buts, with your views eh? Must be nice to have a handel on what women think, so clearly, so confident.

  I say you need a lesson or two in presenting your ideas vs absolutes.

  Re-read the definitions of "sexism" that I posted. It was from those definitions that I was able to decide it is definitely sexist. Until I looked it up, I wasn't sure. After I looked it up, I was sure. If it fits the definition, what else would you like me to say?
• 

  DannyBear

  Seeker,

  So I can gather from your response, that one can simply turn to Webster's definitions, for absolute answer's to all tricky issues.

  Sounds a little 'black and white' to me. Now lets all look up in the Wt bound volumes for the answer to this...brother's and sister's.

  PoooPooo

  Danny
• 

  waiting

  I agree with Seeker.

  A woman can be attractive, physically fit, but not have a perfect body. She may weigh 10/20/30 pounds over any of the contestants, and still be as healthy and quite lovely. She may be flat chested, some celulite on the thighs, but just as fit. She may only be cute, and not beautiful - still nothing to do with fitness. Hell, she may be butt ugly! And her flow of hair has almost nothing to do with anything.

  I'm not suggesting the Taliban method. But to judge on physical perceived perfection of what we THINK physically fit women should be is just a classy way of having a wet t-shirt competition.

  Nothing wrong with those either if y'all like them! Just call if for what it is.

  And yes, when I was in my 30's, I wore the same low cut swimsuits, and I looked good, even though I wasn't 22. But I would never allow myself to be judged, even partially as my worth as a woman, on how I looked. Did I enjoy the swimsuits & the attention? You bet! But I wouldn't put myself in the position of being judged.

  And no, I don't watch pagents - at least, not for long. Just plain boring, imho.

  waiting