Christianity Pagan says Rex

by Satanus 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    That's right, read it for yourselves, you other christians. Our resident theological authority could not come up w a single non-pagan original christian concept.

    'Why in the world would you expect Christianity NOT to contain the truth gleaned from paganistic beliefs.'

    See the complete thread at:
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=15182&site=3

    This naturally raises many questions: Why did christianty not invent anything new? Why did jesus call this paganism new wine? Most think the nt is better, kinder etc than the ot. Since paganism is its source, is paganism also better, kinder etc than the ot? Since paganism recieved these improvements first, does god endorse paganism and is christianity really a second best choice? Or is christianity really a demonic invention? Will rex openly embrace paganism, as some others here have, thus going to the real source?

    SS

  • Bridgette
    Bridgette

    Amen, brother Satan!! I will attempt to read the link, but I do know that if everybody lived by the simple pagan precept:
    "do what ye will, so long as it harm none." Emphasis on HARM NONE.
    We would be living what it took all those words attributed to Jesus to impart.
    Just love each other. and do good. and be happy.

    Love,
    Bridgette

  • Rex B13
    Rex B13

    Hi SS,
    The very basis for most paganistic religions is at it's root, monotheism. This monotheism eventually gives way to 'little gods', that are mythical offspring (or demonistic) that are worshipped, leaving behind the one God, except in the case of those curious descendants of a former pagan known as Abram, who is now known as Abraham. Are you so rabidly anti-Christian that you would twist what I said or are you unaware of this? I think that you knew what I meant all along. Given the creation account, this is an obvious fact and is also why the first of the ten commandments is to "have no other god before me" (paraphrase).

    I am always amused at the great lengths non-believers who have no clue will go to undermine scripture.
    Cheers,
    Rex

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Rex

    The issue is christianty derived from paganism. The concepts of christianity, rex.

    'monotheism eventually gives way to 'little gods'' -- This too is replicated in christianity as the doctrine of jesus/god the son, as opposed to isa44:24,45:5.6.

    I'm just pro-truth, whatever the cost.

    SS

  • ISP
    ISP

    Hey....the fundamental teaching of Jesus....i.e. The Golden Rule was borrowed from pagan religions! Haha! So there appears to be nothing unique about Christianity.

    ISP

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Rex

    Babylon had many gods. When abraham left it, he brought his own family god and some of the creationary accounts, to which you alluded, w him. YHWH was just one of many others there. Abraham, being rather materialist/militaristic, could only embrace one spiritual figure. If he had been born in todays scientific world, he would have been an atheist.

    SS

  • JanH
    JanH

    Rex,

    The very basis for most paganistic religions is at it's root, monotheism.

    That is untrue. I at first hoped you meant "polytheism", but it appears you actually think that monotheism is the original form. That is not true. Monotheism is a pretty new development in the histroy of religions, and is preceded by polytheism as well as many other forms of religion (including animism and even non-theism) by centuries, almost certainly millennia.

    The 'honour' for being the first known monotheist should perhaps be shared between Deutero-Isaiah and Zoroaster. Early OT writings were not monotheist, they represented a precursor form often called Monolatry (acknowledging other deities existed, but worshipping only one god).

    - Jan
    --
    "Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets

  • chappy
    chappy

    Jan,

    What time-frame did the Egyption ruler Akinatin (spelling?) fall in? I was under the impression that he was the first known montheist. Some historians seem to think this is where Moses got his ideas.

    later,
    chappy

  • Rex B13
    Rex B13

    Here's the flip side of that argument from one of your favorite sources, the Catholic encyclopedia:

    PRIMITIVE MONOTHEISM

    Was monotheism the religion of our first parents? Many Evolutionists and Rationalist Protestants answer No. Rejecting the very notion of positive, Divine revelation, they hold that the mind of man was in the beginning but little above that of his ape-like ancestors, and hence incapable of grasping so intellectual a conception as that of Monotheism.

    They assert that the first religious notions entertained by man in his upward course towards civilization were superstitions of the grossest kind. In a word, primitive man was, in their opinion, a savage, differing but little from existing savages in his intellectual, moral, and religious life. Catholic doctrine teaches that the religion of our first parents was monotheistic and supernatural, being the result of Divine revelation. Not that primitive man without Divine help could not possibly have come to know and worship God. The first man, like his descendants to-day, had by nature the capacity and the aptitude for religion. Being a man in the true sense, with the use of reason, he had the tendency then, as men have now, to recognize in the phenomena of nature the workings of a mind and a will vastly superior to his own. But, as he lacked experience and scientific knowledge, it was not easy for him to unify the diverse phenomena of the visible world. Hence he was not without danger of going astray in his religious interpretation of nature. He was liable to miss the important truth that, as nature is a unity, so the God of nature is one. Revelation was morally necessary for our first parents, as it is for men to-day, to secure the possession of true monotheistic belief and worship.

    The conception that Almighty God vouchsafed such a revelation is eminently reasonable to everyone who recognizes that the end of man is to know, love, and serve God. It is repugnant to think that the first generations of men were left to grope in the dark, ignorant alike of the true God and of their religious duties, while at the same time it was God's will that they should know and love Him. The instruction in religion which children receive from their parents and superiors, anticipating their powers of independent reasoning, and guiding them to a right knowledge of God, being impossible for our first parents, was not without a fitting substitute. They were set right from the first in the knowledge of their religious duties by a Divine revelation. It is a Catholic dogma, intimately connected with the dogma of original sin and with that of the Atonement, that our first parents were raised to the state of sanctifying grace and were destined to a supernatural end, namely, the beatific vision of God in heaven. This necessarily implies supernatural faith, which could come only by revelation.

    Nor is there anything in sound science or philosophy to invalidate this teaching that Monotheistic belief was imparted by God to primitive man. While it may be true that human life in the beginning was on a comparatively low plane of material culture, it is also true that the first men were endowed with reason, i.e., with the ability to conceive with sufficient distinctness of a being who was the cause of the manifold phenomena presented in nature. On the other hand, a humble degree of culture along the lines of art and industry is quite compatible with right religion and morality, as is evident in the case of tribes converted to Catholicism in recent times; while retaining much of their rude and primitive mode of living, they have reached very clear notions concerning God and shown remarkable fidelity in the observance of His law. As to the bearing of the Evolutionistic hypothesis on this question, see FETISHISM.

    It is thus quite in accordance with the accredited results of physical science to maintain that the first man, created by God, was keen of mind as well as sound of body, and that, through Divine instruction, he began life with right notions of God and of his moral and religious duties. This does not necessarily mean that his conception of God was scientifically and philosophically profound. Here it is that scholars are wide of the mark when they argue that Monotheism is a conception that implies a philosophic grasp and training of mind absolutely impossible to primitive man.

    The notion of the supreme God needed for religion is not the highly metaphysical conception demanded by right philosophy. If it were, but few could hope for salvation. The God of religion is the unspeakably great Lord on whom man depends, in whom he recognizes the source of his happiness and perfection; He is the righteous Judge, rewarding good and punishing evil; the loving and merciful Father, whose ear is ever open to the prayers of His needy and penitent children. Such a conception of God can be readily grasped by simple, unphilosophic minds -- by children, by the unlettered peasant, by the converted savage.

    Nor are these notions of a supreme being utterly lacking even where barbarism still reigns. Bishop Le Roy, in his interesting work, "Religion des primitifs" (Paris, 1909), and Mr. A. Lang, in his "Making of Religion" (New York, 1898), have emphasized a point too often overlooked by students of religion, namely, that with all their religious crudities and superstitions, such low-grade savages as the Pygmies of the Northern Congo, the Australians, and the natives of the Andaman Islands entertain very noble conceptions of the Supreme Deity. To say, then, that primitive man, fresh from the hand of God, was incapable of monotheistic belief, even with the aid of Divine revelation, is contrary to well-ascertained fact. From the opening chapters of Genesis we gather that our first parents recognized God to be the author of all things, their Lord and Master, the source of their happiness, rewarding good and punishing evil. The simplicity of their life made the range of their moral obligation easy of recognition. Worship was of the simplest kind.

    There are almost always two valid sides to any argument. I'll try to come up with some more non-protestant views that are more close to our specific needs.
    Later,
    Rex

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Are we talking about the Jesus Mithras connection yet?

    YERUSALYIM
    "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
    [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit