JWs' children, in a covenant relationship to Jah like the Jews ?

by aligot ripounsous 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  aligot ripounsous

  Last Sunday, after the meeting, I had an interesting conversation with an elder, who asked me, among other things, how my 2 teen children are faring, because he noticed that they don't attend meetings anymore. I replied that they are fine and, as far as meetings are concerned, they are of age to choose their own ways. I said that their being JWs' children doesn' t put them, before Jehovah, in a special position. They are not, like Israelite children, in a covenant relationship by birth and their happening to be born in a JW family doesn't give them any special merit to be spared at A. Instead, like all humans, JWs' children are accountable for their own deeds (mind, my kids' are not so bad).

  So far nothing revolutionary, this position looks the only sensible one and it is fairly in line with the WTS stand. I then pointed out that western congregations, in terms of gathering Jehovah's people, have gathered mainly (part of) their own kids and we shouldn't hear statements like nowadays JWs' children form the core of tomorrow congregations, because the preaching work is supposed to result in the ingathering of people from outside. Now, and quite typically I think, such JWs' children compose almost half of my congregation.

  I added that I had become a JW at age past 30 and I was expecting my children to think thoroughly about the personal choice they would make in religious matters, without undergoing group pressure in their teen age. Besides, the level of information of any person who considers becoming a JW is quite different now from what it used to be 30 years ago, due to the internet, at least in developed countries. I said that I wasn't sure I would have adhered, had I then known that the WTS had once taught that Behemoth and Leviathan were locomotives, whatever they would teach now, and I'm quite certain that all sensible persons will doubt that the author of such nonsense (I didn't dare say "ever") had Jehovah's spirit.

  The elder couldn't but agree on this opinion. So, I added, if you can question the WTS authors of those past days, you can rightly sift what they teach now through the filter of critical mind. By then, the elder had gone past his agreement limit. He answered, as expected, that Jehovah's organization is composed of imperfect men. I don't amplify on what followed, may I just say that I could see in his eyes something like a notification to continue the conversation in front of a few more elders...
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  Perry

  NOT ONLY THE CHILDREN AREN'T, BUT THE ADULTS AS WELL - My favorite all time deception is the play on words - Memorial Observance. The word "observance" has a double meaning and is used as a manipulative thought control literary device to allow for literally observing the rejection of the New Covenant (and Life) while at the same time making the rejectors feel that they are "observing" the occasion as in a holiday. Brilliant deception.
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  Burger Time

  As I mentioned in my topic, they kind of double speak on this. They tell parents to keep kids in line with the org, but then the kids are able to make their own decision so long as the decision is to be a JW. Usually they choose not to be which puts undue stress on parents.
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  aligot ripounsous

  Perry,

  I came yesterday across one of those manipulative literacy devices in the book "the day of Jehovah". It could be a topic for another thread and I will take time to write it. I come back later on that.
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  R.Crusoe

  Whoever you are aligot, you have my mind in your headspace!

  I like your style!
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  aligot ripounsous

  Thanks, R.C. I take it as a compliment as I appeciate your poetic language, even though it's not always easy to follow for a foreigner !
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  R.Crusoe

  I find many people get that foreigner feeling when I post so don't consider it a personal weakness!
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  WTWizard

  I wonder when they are going to use this play on words to make baptism a legally binding contract to serve the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger for life, and that they will then have the right to go after anyone that doesn't. After hounding parents to have children baptized at age 6.

  Whether you were born in or recruited, you should (in a non-Dark Ages society) have the right to change your opinions about something, if new information comes to light that reasonably proves your previous opinions wrong. That is how science acts. You start with a hypothesis, and then do the experiments and come to a conclusion. Then, if you later get better technology and your original conclusion is proven wrong, you then change it. It is this continual seeking the truth, in its fullest integration, that eventually leads to the real truth.

  The Watchtower Society instead insists that the seeking of the truth stop when one is baptized. And if one is born in, they are presumed to have bypassed that seeking. They will never learn any other viewpoints, and (unless they start seeking to confirm that they have the truth) will never know anything else. It is this stopping people from testing the hypothesis and conclusions, and not the errors in of themselves, that threatens to plunge people into a Dark Ages (there is no Dark Ages as long as people are free to test errant conclusions and adjust them accordingly).

  This is comparable to children born in the First Dark Ages. They were not allowed to test the conclusions either (and many did anyways, and paid for it with their lives). Error was allowed to stand in place of truth, while the leaders treated them like property. They could not grow past that without getting burned at the stake. These days, the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger merely cuts them off from their livelihoods and social network for seeking to test the conclusions, which is as effective for the Dark Age cult members as burning at the stake was for the original heretics.

  No, no one has the right to insist on our children repeating our mistakes. Parents are responsible for providing for children up until they become independent, but are no longer accountable for decisions they make beyond that point. It is only reasonable to let the children make their own decisions once they reach the age of about 18 (in some countries it is 16; in some others, 21). As for getting baptized, Jesus had all the information and was 30. Thus, no one should be baptized until they have all the pertinent information, and even then should be allowed out if they see new light that suggests that they are on the wrong path.
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  Perry

  According to Acts 8: 37 Belief not knowledge was the main prerequisite for baptism. Further it could be performed immediately after hearing about Jesus. The reason that the WT cannot do this is because they must indoctrinate the subject to believe that salvation is through them not Jesus. I believe that it does not come natural to place your eternal trust in man. It must be taught. - The only great crowd they'll experience is the one in hell. - It is a very serious thing that they have done to the word of God.
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  R.Crusoe

  WT Wizard - your stuff is showing us how you fought with the Belrock and have survived!

  btw Perry - I fully endorse your sentiments though hell hath no fury like a woman scorned so watch out for them along lifes path esp the ones void of reason and in the mindset of circles of friends absent your welfare!

  I have no notion of a fiery hell just like I no longer have one of satan or any demons in any dark place alone anytime! The world has dark thinkers (ones who look to bind you) in it and they are the ones who inflict damage on you and get you to do so to yourself as if they can make you take long enough piece of psychological rope to hang yourself with! That's the rope filled with negatives and self doubt and punishments and all things stopping you living life and enjoying it with others who do the same!

  Blessings and may you find and tune in to the living! '