My Visits To Church

by serotonin_wraith 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

BurnTheShips

If you did not believe in a god, would you hurt others?
That person would not be who I am, so I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine.
Read my Unamuno quote above.
Upon whose cost doth thou feed.
Burn
serotonin_wraith

You don't know? Why not? Afterall, what's to think about? Morality comes from religion, right? Without that, you would obviously turn evil. There couldn't possibly be another reason to stop you.
Could there?
Edit: Sorry, I can't be bothered with the moral argument again. BTS, we've been over this before. You ended up not being able to respond.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/144503/1.ashx
I can't see any point in repeating myself. I think this is why debating got to be a headache for me. If you're going to act deliberately blind to what I say, keep reading over my previous posts and pretend they're new ones. It's essentially the same thing.
BurnTheShips

You don't know? Why not? Afterall, what's to think about? Morality comes from religion, right? Without that, you would obviously turn evil. There couldn't possibly be another reason to stop you.
Could there?
On this thread I never said that about morality. Read my post above. Read my quote from Miguel Unamunos The Tragic Life. You can be an unbeliever and be moral, even heroic. What I did say is that an unbelieving BTS would be a radically different person than the one here "before" you. So would the other BTS be be good or evil? I don't know. This BTS here is evil.
That is your answer.
You brought up the moral argument:
We don't need to read 'Love thy neighbour and God will be pleased' in order to go and help Africans build wells.
Of course not. We don't need a religious foundation to do good. But where are the Atheist missions? Where are the Atheist orgs in Africa building wells? I can't think of one. Google "Christian Aid Africa" or "Christian Mission Africa". Here's a few of the hits:
Christ Cares Childrens Home
a caring and rehabilitation centre for orphans and needy children from the streets and poor families in Kajiado District in Kenya
Orphanages for Africa (OFA)
a Christian multinational charity which offers humanitarian and development assistance to Africans caring for orphans.
Hope for Africa Intermational A Christian Charitable Organisation providing humanitarian and social services to Orphans and Vulnerable Children in Africa through Community Schools. We, through Church links program, provide spiritual support to families in crisis and other need groups.
Sponsoring African Children in Kenya Africa Christian Charity The mission of Pamoja Child Trust, Inc. is to promote, sponsor, and assist Kenyans in developing programs that would optimize the physical, emotional, spiritual, mental and social well being of children.
I can't see any point in repeating myself. I think this is why debating got to be a headache for me. If you're going to act deliberately blind to what I say, keep reading over my previous posts and pretend they're new ones. It's essentially the same thing.
LOL. You cuntpaste the link to one of my first convos with a militant antitheist and use that to end the discussion? Look at my post count there. I've evolved sero.
You haven't even addressed my previous two comments properly. What morality you possess you have, in part, learned from your culture and Christian heritage. At least give credit where due.
Ungrateful.
Have a good one Zero.
BurnTheShips.
BurnTheShips

Don't even ask me about the formatting above. I have no idea.
I try to fix it and it gets worse.
I hope its legible.
Burn
BurnTheShips

Edit: Sorry, I can't be bothered with the moral argument again. BTS, we've been over this before. You ended up not being able to respond.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/144503/1.ashx
I can't see any point in repeating myself. I think this is why debating got to be a headache for me. If you're going to act deliberately blind to what I say, keep reading over my previous posts and pretend they're new ones. It's essentially the same thing.
I'm back at the trough again! :-)
I read the thread, JGNAT gave you a run for your money, I did not see you decisively (or even convincingly) neutralize her reasoning.
I've repeated myself many times here as well, my post count is a bit higher than yours, it comes with the territory, so please jettison the martyr complex.
Consider it training for when you face the motley hordes in the Christ-dens you visit. ;-)
Cheers,
Burn
serotonin_wraith

So apparently, the only reason I am moral is because other humans believe the myth that they will live forever thanks to an invisible creator who can read our minds.
Let's imagine a world in which these holy books hadn't been written, like the time before they were written. To even reach the point where we could work together to invent our different religions we would have had to have been aware that a world where people got on was better for our survival than a world in which we all killed each other over nothing.

But where are the Atheist missions? Where are the Atheist orgs in Africa building wells? I can't think of one. Google "Christian Aid Africa" or "Christian Mission Africa".

Try googling 'atheist charities' and plenty of sites give you your answer. You have to stop thinking of atheism as a 'belief system'. Atheists would do good things in the name of what, exactly? In the name of 'no god'? You are essentially asking 'Where are the Zeus Denying Organisations? Where are the Unbelievers in Unicorns charities? Why don't I hear of the We Don't Believe in Allah Alliance?'
How many good things have you done in the name of not believing in Russell's teapot?
Ridiculous, yeah? It's only in the Christian mind that your god is somehow more likely than all of these things. There are secular groups who help, those that don't do these things in the name of promoting religion. Even they don't say they do it in the 'name of atheism' because, as I've said, it's not a belief system.

LOL. You cuntpaste the link to one of my first convos with a militant antitheist and use that to end the discussion? Look at my post count there. I've evolved sero.

I used it to show I've been over this with you before, and you didn't respond to my points. I've not read it yet, but it looks like you may have finally got around to answering some of the points in that thread now.
More posts means a better ability to answer questions? Judging from this current thread, I don't think this is the case. You've ignored several of my questions here too. Do you want me to make a list?

You haven't even addressed my previous two comments properly. What morality you possess you have, in part, learned from your culture and Christian heritage. At least give credit where due.

I have addressed those points. I addressed them several months ago in the other thread and it's only now I'm getting a response.

please jettison the martyr complex.

Please forgive me. I thought you would have been more lenient, seeing as this life is all I have (unless I burn forever!) and your existence will continue throughout eternity, after the sun goes supernova, Earth ceases to be and our galaxy collides with another. I will attempt to be more humble.
serotonin_wraith

Ehh, why not? Maybe this should be pointed out.
Some of these questions were direct, others are ones I'm just curious about now that I look back over the thread. Each one you answer will be removed from the list.
1. Do you believe in faries?
2. If not, do you go to the bottom of the garden to search for them?
3. Would you admit that it's a bad argument to say 'Well, you can't DISPROVE [whatever it is]'?
4. How is it faith to know of ways I want to enjoy this life?
5. You have said I must think death is the only point - 'born simply to die'. Can you explain why I am being inconsistent in trying to sustain a durable future for our species?
6. If life just for life's sake has little value, won't living forever be an eternity of low value existence?

7. What's wrong with talking about religion with people who want to talk about it?
8. I take it you don't have a problem when people try to spread the message of Jesus, so why the double standard?
9. Is it fanatical to talk with people about who the next president should be, or the best way to eat healthily?
10. Why does your god need defending from me?
11. Is it a good argument to say things are wrong/false because they don't sound very nice?
BurnTheShips

Hey Sero
Bringing up a thread from 6 months ago is a cop-out.
You don't have to believe.
I don't have to stop believing.
All I am saying is that there is nothing wrong with believing.
You say there is something wrong with it and therefore you have to convert others.
You have the agenda, not I.
Deal with it.
serotonin_wraith

12. What would atheists do good things in the name of?
13.
How many good things have you done in the name of not believing in Russell's teapot?
And I could have included a couple more there.

Bringing up a thread from 6 months ago is a cop-out.

I think it's better to link to a thread rather than copy and paste huge chunks of my past writing and put it in this one. Out of the two of us, I'm still the last to give my thoughts on that subject. I can't continue without feedback.

You don't have to believe.
I don't have to stop believing.

Totally agree.

All I am saying is that there is nothing wrong with believing.
You say there is something wrong with it and therefore you have to convert others.

Not quite. People can believe what they want. It's the actions done in the name of their beliefs I'm more concerned about, but I'm not the thought police! Which is why I never speak to people who don't want to talk about it.

You have the agenda, not I.

I've not kept it a secret. Yes, I'd like humanity to give up superstition. Call it an 'agenda' if you like. If you don't like it, you don't have to read what I put. To do so is your choice.
BurnTheShips

1. Do you believe in faries?
I believe in spirits.
2. If not, do you go to the bottom of the garden to search for them?
See #1.
3. Would you admit that it's a bad argument to say 'Well, you can't DISPROVE [whatever it is]'?
You deny my own experience with a categorical universal negative.
4. How is it faith to know of ways I want to enjoy this life?
Those ways constitute a belief system. That XYZ is a good way to live constitutes a belief. You really can't prove it now can you?
5. You have said I must think death is the only point - 'born simply to die'. Can you explain why I am being inconsistent in trying to sustain a durable future for our species?
You caricature what I said. At this point I think you are misunderstanding me on purpose.
6. If life just for life's sake has little value, won't living forever be an eternity of low value existence?
I believe that life for it's own sake is less satisfying than life for a greater purpose. So no, I believe that eternal life in communion with God wouldn't be a low value existence but a supremely meaningful one.

7. What's wrong with talking about religion with people who want to talk about it ?
I believe you are lying here. You do not merely want to talk about it like we are discussing the weather. You have an agenda to convert as many of those that don't agree with you as possible. You sent me an unsolicited PM earlier this week. You do not sound like you just "want to talk about it":
It's become so desperate that we're having to trample on people's feelings and sensibilities. That's not something I like doing, but when I consider the alternative I feel there's no choice. Better for someone to understand there are no pixies and feel a little upset, than for someone to kill in the name of pixies.
9. Is it fanatical to talk with people about who the next president should be, or the best way to eat healthily?
No. But neither do I surreptitiously go to the meetings of the opposition party to disrupt the purpose it is being held for.
8. I take it you don't have a problem when people try to spread the message of Jesus, so why the double standard?
I don't have a problem with it. I have a problem with your dishonesty. I would never go to an atheist antichristian meeting to preach and try to convert them. I would not go to a mosque or synagogue or a coven to do the same. That would be disrespectful.
10. Why does your god need defending from me?
He doesn't. I am not defending God. I am defending my belief in God.
11. Is it a good argument to say things are wrong/false because they don't sound very nice?
It is not wrong to demonstrate how one belief system has greater utilitarian value than another one. You yourself have spent a lot of time on this thread attempting to do just that with respect to your own views.

My Visits To Church

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