by 10p 41 Replies latest watchtower bible
You have to accept that the first two people misbehaving is no excuse on gods part for letting millions a year die of all manner of pain and suffering!
I'm sure we would be far happier if god had just started over way back in the day and saved all this garbage coming out like an open sewer in a flood!
That way we guys could look in the mirror and love ourselves, open a six pack and wait for all the hotties to run us dry!
Simple really!
10p:
A few years ago I read Genesis again, and with a more objective mind, got the sense that Satan was actually telling the truth,
Read it again. The character of Satan doesn't appear in the book of Genesis at all.
and that god was just trying to have humans be his slaves.
Well, that much is obvious. YHWH begins by denying humans access to knowledge. When they get it anyway (thanks to a talking snake) he denies them access to life. Whenever any human acts independently, YHWH punishes them. He can't stand to have anyone do anything other than be his slave.
Satan's first appearance in the bible is at 1 Chronicles 21. Read this chapter and then compare it to a near-identical account in 2 Samuel 24 if you wish to know the real identity of "Satan".
Satan's first appearance in the bible is at 1 Chronicles 21. Read this chapter and then compare it to a near-identical account in 2 Samuel 24 if you wish to know the real identity of "Satan".
The two writers start from a fact:
David called for a census and the census was followed by misfortune.
One writer explains it starting from the idea that God is responsible for everything that he lets happen.
The other attributes the evil to Satan who is the one directly responsible for all evil.
If you read Job, both points of view are reconciled. God allows Satan to try his servant Job.
Read Luke 22:31 where Jesus says concerning Peter,
"Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift youas wheat.
The way I see it is that God has permitted Satan to do his thing with David.
Any act against God is ultimately in vain. Even when evil is done or intended it ultimately ends in good.
Satan's most evil act was the murder of Jesus Christ.
That death is the salvation of the world.
God's will cannot be frustrated.
Burn
God's will cannot be frustrated.
Burn
AMEN to that!
He is the Rock....inmovable
So killing Adam at this point would surmount to killing billions of humans all at once>>>>>
Interesting way to put it, JCanon
btw, I'm curious about why you refer to satan as 'she'?
The idea that killing the parent kills the children is a fundamental concept of the ransom sacrifice. That is why while death came into the world through just one man, it was possible that life could be restored by the death of just one man. But this is a very fundamental Christian doctrine of why Jesus can die for all of us, even though he is just one man. It is possible because he gives up the right to his own perfect lineage which in turn he adopts Adam's children instead. As far as Satan being a woman, Genesis 3:15 calls Satan a woman. Here are the pronouncements: To the Snake: You will eat dust, crawl on your belly. To Eve: You will have birth pangs, crave your husband. To Adam: The earth is cursed and you will eat bread with sweat. To JESUS/MICHAEL: "I will put enmity between you and the woman [Satan] and between your seed and her seed. To SATAN/WOMAN: He [Jesus/Michael] will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel. Thus the five principals involved in the Edenic scenario were all pronounced. The Bible calls Satan the "cherub that is covering", and threre are only two covering cherubs. They are depicted with their wings covering the Ark of the Covenant. Satan is said to have been kicked out of Mount Zion which is Jehovah's holy place. Thus the Ark represents holy mount Zion and the two COVERING CHERUBS are none other than Jesus and Satan, originally. Because of this close relationship, they were considered companions, married, like husband and wife, man and woman. Thus Jesus' new BRIDE, the church or the anointed replace Satan's position on mount zion as Jesus' wife. So basically, among other things, Jesus got "divorced" in Eden. No biggee since he was in love with Adam and mankind anyway. So Jehovah allowed Jesus' second wife to be from mankind. In cultic Jewish folklore, though, Satan is a woman, the demoness LILITH. This is not part of church or Christian doctrine, though it is Biblical that Satan was Jesus' wife. But it is quite prevalently expressed in cryptic Christian art!
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/humm/Topics/Lilith/aNePics.html (Lilith in Eden pictures)
So the SATANISTS know Satan is a woman, even if the WTS and Christians in general don't. It's part of what Revelation calls "the deeper things of Satan." Thus in the recent movie, "The DaVinci Code" where the pentagram was discussed and it was noted it was not a symbol of Satan but for Venus, that was just a play on words, because Satanists know the "Divine Feminine" refers to Satan as the Mother Goddess, which was Satan's role in heaven. Satan was literally the "Queen of the Heavens" as the Bride of Michael. Thus the Mother Goddesses all represent Satan herself.
Even the Christmas tree, which is a representation of Satan/Mother Goddess represents Satan's rebellion wherein the Christmas tree lights represent the fallen angels from heaven who come down to join Satan; the angels are likened to the stars. Even the name CHRIST-MAS mocks Christ because "mass" refers to DEATH, so CHRIST-MAS means Christ's death, not his birthday.
So, even though angels are androgynous, at times the relationship between them are described in terms of a marriage, like Jesus' marriage to the church, though many of the members obviously are men. Likewise, the relationship between these two "covering cherubs" on Mount Zion, Jesus and Satan, were considered in a close relationship resembling that of husband and wife, so Satan in Eden is called "the woman".
Revelation is the climax of the conflict between Christ and his seed and Satan/the woman and her seed, when Michael battles Satan and his angels in heaven. Satan, the original serpent is the original dragon-lady, basically. Beautiful and sophisticated (Sophia), but corrupted by that beauty.
So, when you think of the Madonna and son, think of another form of the "woman and her rebel seed", or when you see Artemis or Venus or any other mother goddess holding a branch or cornupia think: SATAN WOMAN.
JC
Hi WTWizard:
All they wanted was to be able to think on their own. And that was what Satan was offering. We have no way of knowing what new oppressive rules Jehovah would have imposed had Adam remained a slave at that time. Jehovah might have made so many rules that they would not have been able to enjoy life. And that was what Satan was trying to prevent--he was asked to be the guardian of the human race, and he went above and beyond the call of duty. Satan actually saved the human race from a bicameral stagnation trap under a mean Tyrant.
And what does Jehovah do in response to this? He cruelly punished man for wanting to think independently. To me, Adam was trying to become conscious, and Jehovah wanted him to remain bicameral. Satan led him to conscious thinking, and Jehovah puts a stop to it before Adam could have, with the help of Satan, developed totally mysticism-free thinking.
Interesting theory, but like I said, it was just a TRAP for Satan. Don't think in terms of the death of Adam and Eve. Remember, the forbidden fruit got Satan the death penalty to. It was really not a trap for Adam and Eve but an irresistible temptation for Satan. Satan was a "manslayer" from the beginning, because Satan HATES mankind. Satan is the most glorious angel in the universe so to create an human in god's image, so that his life was equal to that of an angel was an insult. It's sort of like a rich, uptight person with royal lineage looking down on someone who is poor and uneducated, but made to share the same things and given the same privileges.
But you can understand, sort of, Satan's position. She was once the most glamorous angel. She was like a superstar in the world, a rich movie star and pop artist compared to the rest of the population. The center of attention. But then, suddenly Jehovah creates MANKIND and all the angels think it is such a fascinating creation, and Jesus totally falls head over heels for Adam. Of course Satan is pissed. Now there is competition. She couldn't take it. Very, very much in spirit like Cain. Cain was prideful, so much so, he couldn't stand for his brother to have more favor or attention than him so he killed him. Same with Satan. Satan hated all this fuss over this half-ape half-angel!
But his reaction was predictable and Jehovah knew this. Consistent with animal form, Adam was not simply a sole being. Unlike the angels, he could have sex with a woman and procreate. WOW! Thus Adam represented a whole race of people, billions eventually, that would fill the earth. All unique with their own personality and great beauty of character and body.
At the same time, god provided a way for Satan to murder mankind by the billions if she dared! Very simple. "Don't eat from this tree or you will die." Satan knew that if they ate without permission Jehovah's law would require him to kill them. That was a thrill worth dying for. You know how some people hate so much, they want to kill someone and then after that they kill themselves? That's how determined Satan was. Satan was as good as "dead" anyway, spiritually speaking, so at least this way, before he left the universe, he could spite Jehovah and Christ who adored mankind and kill their new prize possessions. If Satan could first get Eve to eat, before she realized what was going on, and she gave it to Adam to eat and he ate, then VIOLA! Satan would have succeeded in killing BILLIONS of innocent, unborn humans, forced to be killed by God's law about sin and death. And over what? Simply not eating from a tree?
Satan probably thought that rule was silly, not knowing it was his/her own TRAP. The chance to KILL was too irresistable for Satan so she went for it. Blinded by this opportunity to kill so many at once? No way would she pass up this opportunity. So it worked and Adam and Eve sinned and brought death to mankind, but ALSO to Satan. Only after that, Satan finds out all that would die would only die TEMPORARILY, but she would die PERMANENTLY.
See what a "trick" that was? The DEATH PENALTY is really only a penalty if it is PERMANENT. So all Satan did was killed righteous mankind temporarily; they would come back. But Satan would not be coming back!!! That's the problem with DEATH. It's not that big of a deal if it's only temporary, but it's a REAL PROBLEM IF IT'S PERMANENT! So it was "fool's gold" for Satan.
In the end, all the righteous children of Adam that Jehovah and Jesus had anticipated and could see in the future, including Moses, and Elijah and Daniel and John the Baptist and Abraham... they don't get killed after all by Satan. So what did Satan gain ultimately, as far as the big picture goes? NOTHING. Basically those who follow Satan was going to be killed anyway by Jehovah. So basically Satan is just doing God a favor.
Same thing with Satan being released at the end of the millennium to test post-millenial mankind. Satan will be desperate to kill as many humans as possible for one last thrill, but those who follow Satan would not be worthy "eternity material" anyway. So again, Satan is doing Jehovah and Jesus a favor by getting rid of the chaff. Satan can bring out the evil in the evil like no one else.
Then I will personally throw Satan's glorious angelic ass into the lake of fire and that will be the end of that clown! In the end, the once great Mother Goddess becomes an empty shell, mere ashes throughout eternity.
So the chief aim of humans should be how to get into the two-thirds of mankind who will get eternal life. Try to stay out of that lake of fire bound one-third.
UNFORTUNATELY, everything someone says, even in these boards will be called to account of Judgment Day.... hmmmm..
JC
The way I see it is that God has permitted Satan to do his thing with David.
What happens with Satan after the fact of Eden is one thing. Question is, did Satan act on his own in Eden to get Eve to eat from the forbidden fruit?
Obviously not. That is something Satan did on his own. And he is soon to pay for it. Satan was already kicked out of heaven in 1992 and soon will be abyssed during the millennium. So things are moving right along. Satan's only LEGACY will be the death of as many humans as possible, so he's very focussed on using his best methods and tricks to do that. But his tricks can't work on the anointed. Jehovah has sort of "castrasted" Satan up to a point as far as his influence.
It's sort of like the spy game. Russia needs to corrupt an important US spy so it sends its most beautiful and talented female agent to accidentally meet and get involved with whomever the US is going to send. She has a reputation of not being able to be resisted by anyone. So the US sends its top gay agent. Ooops! He doesn't even notice those perfect 38s! Her coyish teases only bore him to death! His only interest in her is who did her make-up and whether or not she would mind it very much if he borrows her gold pumps for a party he wants to go to!
Also, it is clear, at the end-times that Jehovah only lets Satan's challenges go so far. As noted, the JIOR is completely hiden from the "face of the dragon" (Satan). So the core of Jehovah's and Christ's anointed are all hidden in secret societies. They can be in a secret society and still pretend to be a Baptist or a JW or a Catholic or anything else. That's just a public front. But it prevents Satan from using his usual tactics of infiltration and corruption and spying. Satan can try to spew forth false propaganda to drown the anointed, like all the evidence CO Jonsson comes with from SECULAR RECORDS trying to establish the NB Period, but better information about the chrnology from this time including from the Bible dismisses that! I'm a perfect example. If COJ tries to seel 587 BCE for the fall of Jerusalem to me, I just pull out he VAT4956 and ask him why are there two references to 511 BCE in this text otherwise dated to 568 BCE? Of course, it is OBVIOUS what is going on, I don't have to ask him. But he'll never address it and the double-dating invalidates the 568 BCE dating, period. Funny to me, though, when year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar falls in 511 BCE, then year 23 falls in 525 BCE, the year of the last deportation which is 70 years earlier than the 1st of Cyrus which dates to 455 BCE. Of ALL the "coincidences"!!!! So you see, all that documentation just falls to the ground and means nothing if you're more informed. So Jehovah has provided us with enough information to dismiss those challenges. That false propaganda does not affect us, it does not drown us, though it might drown the rest of the world.
JC
JC
BurnTheShips:
The two writers start from a fact:
David called for a census and the census was followed by misfortune.
One writer explains it starting from the idea that God is responsible for everything that he lets happen.
I think the word "fact" is a bit strong but your explanation doesn't really hold up. They are virtually identical accounts, it seems that 2 Samuel was written before the character of Satan was invented. YHWH at that time was responsible for both good and evil.
Satan's most evil act was the murder of Jesus Christ.
I thought that was God's most loving act.
I think the word "fact" is a bit strong but your explanation doesn't really hold up. They are virtually identical accounts, it seems that 2 Samuel was written before the character of Satan was invented. YHWH at that time was responsible for both good and evil.
Do you have evidence of this or is it merely speculation?
I thought that was God's most loving act.
For God it was. For Satan it was not.
Do you understand FD?
Cheers
Burn
Read Sumerian mythology - Judaism, Christanity and Islam are ALL founded of Sumerian traditions. Abraham after all was a resident of Ur. Also it is interesting to note that Sumerian mythology speaks of two brother Enki and Enlil - with Enki being the god of wisdom and all creation, while his younger brother who later usurped the position in the panthean was creator of the earth and god of the hoe and agriculture. Also, it is Enki who saved mankind from the flood account and tried to passify his younger brother Enlil who dispised men. Jewish accounts speak of Abraham going to the temple when he was young and chosing Enlil as his god. Could Enlil, given his traits, have morphed into Yahweh? It would seem so. Perhaps the same could be said with Enki and Satan.
It is also interesting to note that when the Isrealites were dying Moses made a copper serpent and had the people look at it. Enki is the god of medicine and his symbol is a serpent wrapped around a pole. Interesting to say the least.
Perhaps Satan did not lie in the garden when he said YOU will not die in the day of eating the fruit - or knowledge. Yahweh lied in that the premise of a thousands years is as of a day and vis versa is not until much later. In any case I would rather pay homage to the creator than some egocentric god.
