Why did Death not stop as soon as the RANSOM was paid? (page 2)

Carmel

Maybe the whole script is misinterpreted! Ever thought of that? carm

The Oracle

A great question JWFacts.

A great question indeed.

When one stops and thinks deeply, when one truly meditates on these important matters, putting aside any prejudicial thought - the conclusion always seem to be the same...

The Oracle

JCanon

Terry's recent thread about God's love made me start wondering the above question. Normally a Ransom is done as a swap, the payment is made on exchange.
2000 years ago Jesus made payment by dieing. God's apparent sense of justice was fulfilled by this act. So why did Jehovah not apply that payment 2000 years ago and end human misery and suffering?
A JW answer is that we still needed time to prove that we can not rule ourselves. I find that pretty shallow, but regardless, why not send Jesus after he was satisfied that all other criteria had be met?

Good question. The fundamental answer is that the longer the period of time allowed for mankind to be born the more people could be saved. In order to benefit from the ransom sacrifice, a person needs to be born and possibly reach the age of majority (10-13 years or so?).

Another way to look at it was like this. After the ransom sacrifice was put into place, Adam's children had to be physically born to benefit from it. Because they would be born imperfect, they would end up dying and then needing to be resurrected during Judgment Day. About six thousand years was permitted for Adam's children to be born, likely approximately the number of years needed to populate the earth. After all, with people living forever, you would reach zero population growth at one point, right? So the assumption is that six thousand years of births plus whoever is born during the millennium, minus say one-third of those who don't get eternal life, will be about the number of people that would have been in place if Adam had not sinned. So basically, the "delay" is so that as many of Adam's children can be born according to the schedule.

The other issue is that the more time that is permitted the more chance of people turning around. It's like the prodigal son scenario. If he didn't return in time, he would have missed out. If God brought Armageddon say last year, then some people who are converting now would not have been saved. So essentially it's to the advantage of both God and Christ to delay Armageddon as long as possible where people have freedom of choice to choose good. But as soon as it is clear the great tribulation has begun, when the UN destroys the Babylon-based Illuminati/Freemasonry influences including the WTS and Christendom, then people will clearly see Armageddon is starting and of course, they will then suddenly decide they are ready to convert now. But, of course, it will have been too late. So God is truly not "slow" but patient. Waiting on that last soul that's on the borderline who just might convert. It's worth the wait. But, at some point that time will indeed run out and that will be that.

THE ODDS: Basically, as I see it, if you were born you have a 2:3 chance of having eternal life. But those who know the Bible will have a harder judgment than those who don't. Those who had the opportunity to progress spiritually but spurned that chance will lose out, compared to those who didn't know better, etc. The same situation with the Jews. The greater honor came with greater obligation and responsibility.

JC

SPAZnik

A JW answer is that we still needed time to prove that we can not rule ourselves

And to this "answer" I can't help but think, haven't we proven this yet?

SPAZnik

I prefer to think he came to show us his love through example. How so? By standing up to religious hypocrites and showing us what he will do when humans finally render the earth useless. He hung with the poorest, most rejected realm of society and he ministered to them. This is the Jesus that I have always admired and loved, no matter how agnostic I have felt at different times. He is a peacemaker and preacher. He also talks down hypocrisy. More power to him.

Very nice, FHN.

Jeffro

A JW answer is that we still needed time to prove that we can not rule ourselves. I find that pretty shallow, but regardless, why not send Jesus after he was satisfied that all other criteria had be met?

If the bible is to be taken at face value, god never wanted to establish whether humans could successfully rule themselves (Genesis 11:5-7). The 'ransom' is a religious tradition built upon primitive ritual sacrifice.

Perry

Jesus paid a ransom for each believer who accepts, not for Adam as the WT maintains. The exchange is made individually, not corporately.

trevor

Jwfacts - Your question is valid.

When Adam an eve sinned ALL mankind were plunged into sin. Mankind was not obliged to put faith in Adam or Eve in order share in their sin - it was automatic. When the debt was repaid by Christ, ALL mankind should have been restored automatically.

A catch has been added. We have to subject ourselves to Christ and become his slaves.

Jesus did not pay of the debt. He merely bought the debt and now owns those who were deemed to owe the debt. The proof - Anyone who refuses to become a slave of Christ instead of a slave of sin faces the death penalty. It looks more like a buyout than an act of love.

Thank goodness it is all just a badly told and contradictory story written to amuse shepherds and fisher men.

Trevor

Jim_TX

Good question.

Personally... I have issues with this 'the wages of sin are death' bit. If I recall correctly - once one dies - they have 'paid' that debt. If this is the case... Lazarus paid the debt when he died.

Lazarus was then resurrected by Jesus (if you believe the fairy tale). So. Does that mean that Lazarus is still alive today? Or did he die again later?

If he died again then...

a) Jesus performed a flawed 'miracle'

b) Lazarus paid twice for his 'sin'

c) all other 'miracles' performed by Jesus would also be flawed.

Regards,

Jim TX

jwfacts

Interesting variety of answers. JCanon, your answer is unique, it is about time you registered your own religion.

We have to subject ourselves to Christ and become his slaves.
Jesus did not pay of the debt. He merely bought the debt and now owns those who were deemed to owe the debt. The proof - Anyone who refuses to become a slave of Christ instead of a slave of sin faces the death penalty.

Trevor, excellent observation. Death has not been done away by the Ransom as, according to most Christian religions, if you do not accept the Ransom you do not receive perfect everlasting life. In fact in some ways the Ransom makes things worse - in religions that claim sinners receive everlasting torment in hell. Though this varies by religion. For example, Catholics will say non Catholics buring forever in a living hell. Anglicans are more pleasant, in that they now say that everyone will receive a heavenly resurrection.

Why did Death not stop as soon as the RANSOM was paid?

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