BART EHRMAN answers my question

by TerryWalstrom 66 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Magnum

  sir82: Here is a pretty much verbatim clip of every prayer a certain ministerial servant gives:
  "Jehovah we thank you Jehovah for this meeting Jehovah and we ask you Jehovah to forgive our sins Jehovah and we pray Jehovah for our brothers Jehovah in other lands Jehovah who cannot meet Jehovah as freely Jehovah as we do Jehovah here Jehovah in Jesus name Jehovah we pray Jehovah amen".

  Damn. When I first read that, I sat back and thought "Do I know sir82? Could be be in the last congregation I was in?" We had that exact same situation in our congregation (the brother is now an elder, though). My wife and I actually counted the "Jehovah"s in his prayers. He also used the word "definitely" way too much. One time he used 18 "Jehovah"s and 16 "definitely"s in one prayer.

  After I thought about it for a few seconds, though, I realized, nah, no way I know sir82; he's WAY too smart to be one of the elders in my area.
• 

  Finkelstein

  Obviously the WTS used Jehovah's Witnesses to differentiate their organization from the rest of Christendom,

  but they used a falsely derived name derived from false religion , how ironic.

  Hence the playground of religion .

  I think Jesus Christ said you are my witnesses , co why didn't the WTS. use the name Christain Witnesses
  

  to fall in line with that scripture. ?
• 

  DATA-DOG

  Why can't they be honest and just call themselves Xian witnesses?? Too much rebranding is a bad thing.

  DD
• 

  Finkelstein

  Why can't they be honest and just call themselves Xian witnesses??

  Most likely Rutherford wanted be connected to the higher (Highest) power than the secondary power of the

  son of god. He was a man drive toward power ...... he was " Da Judge" after all.
  

  It was clear that both Russell and Rutherford wanted to distinguish themselves away from mainstream Christendom.

  Well they were supposedly exclusively connected to God after all .

  No other bible based Christians were by their own propagations. ......and you could read about that in their publications.
  
• 

  TerryWalstrom

  

  Bart March 12, 2015
  

  Yes, the tradition going back to Papias is that Matthew produced a Gospel in Hebrew. Later Christians thought he meant the Gospel of Matthew that has come down to us. There are very good reasons for thinking that he meant a different book, however, since the two things he says about Matthew are not true of our Matthew. Ours is not simply a collection of Jesus’ sayings (Logia) and it was certainly not originally written in Hebrew, as is almost universally recognized on very solid grounds (e.g., it copied stories from the *Greek* Gospel of Mark)
• 

  sir82

  Yes, the tradition going back to Papias is that Matthew produced a Gospel in Hebrew. Later Christians thought he meant the Gospel of Matthew that has come down to us. There are very good reasons for thinking that he meant a different book, however, since the two things he says about Matthew are not true of our Matthew.

  I always wondered how to reconcile that (A "Hebrew gospel by Matthew", yet no Hebrew manuscripts)
  

  Another piece of the puzzle filled in.
  
• 

  Phizzy

  Thanks for posting Terry !

  Bart's insights show the huge gulf that exists between real Scholarship and the pseudo kind peddled by the JW Org.
• 

  carla

  Did any of you go out and buy a KJV just to show the 'doors' that jehovah was in fact in their own Bible?

  As a ubm I was so excited when my jw bought a KJV because I thought perhaps he was really reading a different version than the NWT. Wow! he was really and truly studying and comparing! alas, it was only to show the doors.

  I don't think he does that anymore because I'm sure someone at some door must have used that KJV to point out a few other things wrong with their NWT, at least I can hope so anyway. yeah, leave me to my fantasies...........
  
• 

  Pistoff

  Great post, Terry.

  Bart's book Misquoting Jesus was the second non-WT book about belief that I read after awakening, the first was The Origin of Satan, by Elaine Pagels.

  Bart's speaking and writing are accessible, easy to understand.

  It seems to me, being out now, that the name is a bit of a fetish for witnesses, even though as this post makes clear, it is an invention, not a real name, and as such, makes a strong case for the idea that each culture makes it's own name for God.

  The witnesses have seized a name made up in the dark ages and made it their own, primarily because they do poor research and misunderstand most of what they read; meanwhile, the rest of the christian world yawned and passed on the use of the 'name'.
  

  The other thing I noticed since leaving is how loaded the use of Jehovah is, watch this:

  The faithful and discreet slave are God's channel of communication on earth.

  The faithful and discreet slave are Jehovah's channel of communication on earth.

  They are saying the exact same thing, but the one using Jehovah is softer and less jarring.
  
• 

  TerryWalstrom

  If you stop and think about it since the vowels FORCED into YHWH are arbitrary and the use of Adonai is pulled out of thin air as a model, the correct pronunciation of God's 'name' could well be ANYTHING.

  I vote for: “YaHoo WaHoo!”