Well written Nate...
Shropshire Star news editor examines issues behind death of JW Emma Gough
by AndersonsInfo 85 Replies latest watchtower medical
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besty
I'll disagree with the reason for doing it, but I'll fight to the death their right to refuse blood.
Ill thought out plagiarism Burger Time
What of the kids right to have a mother? What lengths would you go to ensure their rights?
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Burger Time
It's still her choice. I don't believe it's right to force kids to not allow blood but if your an adult it's your choice. I also believe people should have the right for assisted suicide. Just my opinion and I think it should be a right we have I might not agree with the reason but it should be a right.. Again I don't have to drink this forums Kool-Aid.
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Gill
BurgerTime - Admirable words, to be willing to fight to the death for their right to refuse. However, Jehovah's Witnesses are not 'in their right minds' as their minds have been taken under control by the 'brainwashing' techniques of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
Their situation is no different to a 'brainwashed' or 'mind controlled' person apparantly deciding to walk onto a railway line with an oncoming train approaching!
We certainly wouldn't 'fight to the death' to allow such a person to commit suicide. We'd fight to the death to drag them OFF the railway line before the train hit.
Therefore, Emma Gough was indirectly Murdered by the machinations of the WTBTS!
Nine years ago I was in a similar position to Emma Gough having just had an emergency ceasarean section and lost nearly five pints of blood. I was dying and still refusing a blood transfusion. I survived through medication, surgical skill and a lot of emergency care. NIne years later I realise I was a brainwashed fool! Emma Gough was equally a brainwashed fool and she was not as lucky as I was. I'm still here to recant my stupidity.
Quite possibly the day will arrive when the WTBTS is forced to life the ban on blood transfusion probably through fear of law suit and will disguise this change as 'New Light'. What will Emma Gough's family think on that day!
Murder is the only reason for this young woman's death.
Why are none of her family screaming for justice for her?
Because they are equally WT idiots!
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Burger Time
It's still their right to be put under that control. Bottom line. My take on it is that if someone is foolish enough to believe something silly it's their right to believe whether it cost them their life or not. the same thing can be said for War, or if I actually did fight to the death for the person to have that right. We're all brain washed in some way or another. It's been that way forever and more then likely it will still be that way. You eradicate the JWs you just have some other nutjob group to take in the weak minded and I'm fine with that.
Sorry if I am callous or whatever, but I just don't see the big deal. She was an adult and therefore could make an adult decision about her life on her own. That's what the law dictates. The only reason the majority (not all but majority) of people on this board care is because they are still bitter at the JW's for personal reasons. If I refused to have a kidney transplant even though it would save my life no one would be enraged or calling names, most would just say, "wow what an idiot" and never think of it again (even if it stemmed from some backwoods belief). That's just what I think, "wow what an idiot". She is choosing something to believe that's stupid. If nothing else it's survival of the fittest. I do not however feel it is OK to force a decision on a child or mentally ill person.
Just for the record I have had many discussions and arguments with my Mom about the blood doctrine and how I feel it can't be backed biblically. In the end however it is her choice and hers alone. Would I be upset if she died because of refusing to take blood? Damn right, but I would respect her wishes and choice.
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flipper
BURGER TIME- I respectfully disagree with you. Emma Gough did not have a choice as to the decision she should make whether to take blood or not. She is told by the Jehovah's Witnesses " mind control cult " that she will be considered unfaithful to God if she ingests blood into her body. So- she is controlled by the Watchtower societies edicts to NOT take blood - if she doesn't want to incur the wrath of the congregation, her friends, and family. So what choice does she have in that situation ? None, really.
The truth of the matter is that due to not receiving life saving blood transfusions over some 60 something years now - many , many Jehovah's Witnesses have died needlessly due to the " mind control" teachings of the Watchtower society. The blame lies on the Watchtower society for enforcing unrealistic and dangerous views of what doctors consider " standard procedures " to save peoples lives. God values life - he does NOT value a group of uneducated men taking the freedoms and chance for life away from innocent children and adults !
Think about it for a minute - Were Jim Jones and people taught by him " free " to make their own choices and stay , or leave? Well , many chose to drink the poison cool-aid, not because of stupidity, but because they were " mind controlled" . Jones had such a power of control over these people , they too felt like they had no choice. Do you feel he was to be held responsible for the deaths of the people drinking the poison ? What about David Koresh of the Branch Davidians - why didn't those people leave ? Because he controlled them- fooled them into believing that he was God's appointed one . It cost about 89 people their lives sticking with him. Same can be said of Charles Manson and his followers . People get mind controlled.
So , I point this out not because I have bitterness towards the society ( which I do) but because it is realistic . The blame falls squarely on the leaders of the Jehovah's Witness cult and the Watchtower society -
Burger Time
The Jim Jones argument is not a good one, those are two radically different situations. When people were drinking Kool-Aid men with guns were forcing them to. When people tried to escape they were shot at. It's been well documented that many did not want to drink the poison. Some did escape actually. Many also were held against their will before the poison drinking incident not by some mental mind control but by physical force. So to try to make the comparison is simply Misleading Vividness.
Despite all the mental cruelty, people are free to leave and they don't even have to do Judicial Committees if they really do not wish to(all they have to say is F.U. when elders come knocking). So she was not forced physically to do it, maybe mentally but even then it wasn't that bad of mind control.
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purplesofa
My grand daughter born in Jan, had jaundice. Her numbers were elevating to the point that there was a concern. The lights she was under were not getting the numbers down fast enough. We were told she may need to be taken to another hospitol for better care and the possiblity of a blood transfusion.(without the transfusions for jaundice babies, they can suffer irreversable brain damage!) The problem did not escalate to that point. But, I am so glad getting a transfusion or not was not going to be an issue for our family.
Every blood issue story I read breaks my heart.
purps
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flipper
BURGER TIME- In reading your profile I noticed you were never a baptized witness . So I wouldn't expect you to understand the full impact of " mind control" and how it works. And yes, " the mind control witnesses use is " really bad ". Sometimes mental blackmail and mind control tactics over time are more insidious and trick people more , because it isn't blatant physical aggressive abuse. Still, although you may be correct about the Jones incident, in people fleeing from the site , Manson's followers were still mind controlled , he won his followers over with trickery. The Watchtower society does the same to it's members - giving them false hopes. Yes , they are not as outwardly violent, but the decisions they have insisted their members make have resulted in innocent deaths of Jehovah's Witnesses. Just look at Malawi - a great example of the Watchtower causing deaths to it's members for not signing a political party card. Yet in Mexico - they let their same members sign a political party card as it was advantageous to the Watchtower society to get preaching done down there. Yeah, the Watchtower is bloodguilty for sure. So, I agree to disagree with you
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AndersonsInfo
The research material supplied in some of the posts is extraordinarily helpful. I certainly will save for future use the great time-line information on Watchtower’s foray into medical doctrine as supplied by Nathan Natas, and the extraordinary, additional information provided by skeeter1 about the dangers of using Recombinant Activated Factor VII for patients without hemophilia or who have normal blood which Mr. Thomas mentioned in his article is “the subject of a little controversy.”
In the courtroom, Mr. Thomas reports that the Gough family solicitor asked the doctor if he might have employed Factor Seven as an alternative to a transfusion. Why would an attorney for the Gough family, who are Jehovah’s Witnesses, ask about the doctor using Factor VII? Because Factor VII is on the list of “minor blood fractions or products containing minor blood fractions” that Witnesses can accept according to their conscience as found in the Watchtower’s Durable Power of Attorney for Health Care form. See #3, ____ Clotting factors (e.g., fibrinogen Factors VII, VIII, IX, XII).
Now the issue comes down to this: Why is the Watchtower Society through the HLC elders recommending as an alternative to blood a “minor” blood product/fraction that has serious questions being asked regarding its safety, since there is now “mounting medical evidence linking it to deadly blood clots that lodge in the lungs, heart and brain.”? and "It's a completely irresponsible and inappropriate use of a very, very dangerous drug," said Jawed Fareed, director of the hemostasis and thrombosis research program at Loyola University in Chicago and a specialist in blood-clotting and blood-thinning medications.
As it stands right now, because of accepting the Watchtower Society’s ban of blood transfusion, in an emergency situation where there is massive bleeding, a Witness will more than likely not survive without blood. On top of that, because of accepting the Watchtower Society’s permission to take the “minor blood fraction,” Factor VII, a bleeding Witness could die from a deadly blood clot caused by receiving an injection of this “largely experimental blood-coagulating drug.”
Jehovah’s Witnesses suffering trauma from massive blood loss are truly between a rock and a hard place. I’m just sick at heart hearing about needless deaths because of a theological doctrine that has no basis in fact, and now also from a Watchtower acceptable alternative to blood transfusion that could kill. We still have a son and grandchild who are in danger because of Watchtower policies. Whether our son is a “consenting adult” to Watchtower’s medical madness, we still love him and don’t want to see him die if he needed a blood transfusion. When is it all going to stop?
Barbara