The JW religion or the person, whose fault is it?

by larc 28 Replies latest jw friends

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  waiting

  Howdy NN,

  Just because the WTBTS is narrow minded and wrong in their condemnations of others, doesn't mean we have to do the same. Then we bring ourselves down to their level. That's one reason I left - I didn't want to act like that anymore.

  People kill children - good points on why have been brought out. People always have killed children, who knows in the distant future.
  My father was an atheist - and he enjoyed his perversions. Are all atheists to be judged as him?

  The blame falls to both the individuals AND to the so-called "moral authority" that guided and directed their spritual development.

  Agreed.

  waiting
• 

  kilroy

  Old Hippie,

  I don't know about the "it is known" part of Sirona's post either.

  However, the part about abolutely forbidding outside mental help is definitly true. The WTS insisted that a shrink would make you believe that all your problems were caused by your religion. I remember it as if it was yesterday. I don't have any old literature and even if I did I would need an OLD index which I also don't have. You will never find any of their stuff that they don't want you to read listed in any newer index because they have carefully edited it out.

  It has only been in the last few years that they have encouraged outside mental help. And most of my problems and those of a lot of witnesses were definitly caused by the religion. We were in for 38 years and it was a bumpy ride. All that talk about Prozac in the congregation really makes you wonder. After all, where there is smoke there is generally something smouldering.

  Kilroy
• 

  ashitaka

  Larc,

  To me it's simple.

  JW's give power to people who shouldn't have it.

  Mothers who are emotionally troubled are told to liberally use the rod. Abusive men are told they are the head, and they use it to browbeat their families. Many abusive men with bad tendencies become elders...and they spread their example around.

  JW's aren't bad. It's what they turn people into that is.

  They tell thier parishoners that God defends their "righteous actions" even if there is a bad result from them.

  ashi
• 

  willy_think

  "they were meting out the biblical punishment of "40 lashes minus one, three times," detectives said Monday."

  were would he have gotten this idea?

  Constance Slack, a registered nurse at a children's hospital, gagged her daughter, Laree, while she was strapped down to a futon, police said. Her father, Larry Slack, then repeatedly hit the child with an inch-thick section of rubberized electrical cable filled with strands of wire, police said. She died of internal bleeding.

  a registered nurse!! she knew

  "Larry Slack is a firm believer in corporal punishment, and he and his wife decided to administer discipline from the Bible, investigators said."

  who supported and encouraged "corporal punishment"

  ""It was his attempt to teach his daughter about responsibility,'' Area 2 Sgt. Stan Salabura said."

  were did he get the idea that corporal punishment teaches responsibility?

  it's the person's fault for following men.
  lit me ask somthing, if the kid had lived, like so many of us did, would her parents be "righteous" in there "loving dicipline"? would her dad have been supported and comforted with words like "spare the rod spoil the child". or "i'm sure it hurt you more then her"

  willy think: thread killer
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  It is absolutely unbelievable! While apologetics for the WTBS may claim that these individuals were already unstable or off balance, the simple fact is that for the last 80 years the WTBS has been admonishing, recommending, advising, counseling, educating, condoning, and educating its followers that the word "rod" in the bible is a physical thing.
  For years, fundamentalists from many faiths continue the madness of using the word "rod" as a basis for coporal punishment, which usually ends in child abuse and family breakdown during the teen years.

  Rods in the bible are used as measuring guides, tools for examination, like a ruler or magnifying glass, depending on the subject of study. Where discipline is concerned, the rod is for MEASURING the results and friutage of the EDUCATION previously inculcated by the child's parents.

  If the parents did not input any education and training (discipline) then the rod would reveal negative results. It has always been a tool for double-checking the parent's efforts, and not meant to be a tool for blaming and punishing the child.

  It's the bible way of telling parents "garbage in, garbage out". And the rod of discipline if the collection of tools used to measure those results.

  It is amazing how many miss this simple point and are quickly caught up in authority struggles with simple children. Even a small child can understand this logic. Yet, all of these so-called spiritual men cannot see past their "spiritual badge of enforcement" issued by the WTBS under the guise of rods and discipline. It is pathetic.
• 

  Xena

  Excellent thread larc and all!!!!! I am personally a great believer in personal accountability. Nothing sickens me more than seeing people try and shift the blame for their actions onto others but ya'll have really given me a lot to think about in regards to outside influnces determining behavior.

  I think HoChiMin made an excellent point regarding the performance of the parent in the congergation (especially the husband) being rated by the conduct of the wife and children. This puts a lot of pressure on ALL of them. I remember the looks I would get in the KH when my daughter would act up...and I have to admit it at times spurred me to take her in back and spank her.(which I deeply regret now!) And lets face it you can't make elder or MS unless you keep your family in line!!!

  I do feel these parents had some "issues" outside of being JW's but I am sure the pressure they got from the org put even more stress on their already maxed out mental conditions! And therefore did contribute to this horrible tragic occurance. (my opinion for what it is worth anyway)

  As a side note I have known several people who have received outside counciling for their mental problems and they were (in our cong. anyway) looked on by most as "weak" for this.
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  Sirona

  Oldhippie,

  Yeah I understand where you are coming from on that. I read about a study which had been conducted and the paper had been posted online. I also read an interesting article about language and identity of JWs - the writer attended the JWs for a few months for the purpose of this research http://www.unc.edu/~elliott/langid.html.

  I didnt say that they have more occurrance of mental health problems than ALL other groups though, just more than some other groups.

  On seeking professional help: no matter what has been published recently, I know that in the local cong. there is a general feeling that we shouldnt seek help from worldly sources.

  Sirona
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  serenaj92

  This is a very interesting thread and I thank all for sharing this. Shrinks would not agree with the religions today that have such high demand on their people. Some religions are even incorporating war as a God given right. This in itself would cause hatetred. Some people believe that no matter what they do, as a result of their religious beliefs, will be forgiven as long as they ask for it. Thus doing the same thing over and over again thinking they will just be forgiven. Some believe that not studying the bible will save them from ever knowing what God doesn't want them doing thus making him have to forgive him. So it does boil down to religion. I'm not singling out JWs here. I'm also giving you all the credit of having intelligence to figure out what religions I'm talking about. A psychologist told me once that it is all in the mind, what that individual believes. This indicates religious upbringing, whether its what a person was raised as or what a person believes. Many can be in a good religion but believe their own beliefs even contrary to what their chosen religion teaches.
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  BobsGirl

  Perhaps the religion sets up certain conditions that can allow these kinds of horrific events to occur. On the other hand, most people do not succumb to such evil, even if the system makes allowances for it.

  I have to agree with you on this one.... I think that the WTBS does create an environment that is extremely attractive and even protective of perpetrators of many different kinds of abuse. I also think that this does not absolve the offender of their personal responsibilities for their actions.

  In the end ... both are guilty...

  BobsGirl

  "May the work of your hands be a sign of gratitude and reverence to the human condition." - Mahatma Gandhi
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  NameWithheld

  Ditto, I think that the JW religion (and many others) are 'enablers' for this type of madness. It provides an environment that encourages and hides monsters of these types. To have the weekly brainwashing sessions telling you not to 'spare the rod', etc. Justifies the beatings that were obviously a normal part of these children's life. In fact I can imagine that this 'brother' was 'looked up to' as an example of someone who had such well behaved children. Although we all know that the children are probably severaly mentally handicapped by their experiance now, and will suffer for years from their parents abuse.