The elders didn't go after a person in my old congregation in the UK. At least some of us knew the person was living in sin with a partner. The person hadn't been going to meetings. An elder from a neighbouring congregation also gave the strong impression that they don't chase people when he was asked. "Oo, no... blah, blah...". So depending on the elders (and perhaps how well you got on with them when you were there?) and situation, yes.
After fading, can you get away with DF'able sins?
by inkling 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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LouBelle
The elders have procedures they need to follow. They have to get in contact with the person and find out if it's whatever is true. The person in question may be known not to associate with the witnesses, no longer calls himself a witness, is not on file, this means that he can't be disfellowshipped as the person in question could actually sue the elders (the WTBTS wouldn't get involved) He could sue on grounds on discrimination, harrasment, breaking up family etc.
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OnTheWayOut
The elders have procedures they need to follow.
They often do not follow procedure. Remember that they usually work full time and
received poor training. They often do less than they are supposed to do, and sometimes
go beyond their instructions.They have to get in contact with the person and find out if it's whatever is true. The person in question may be known not to associate with the witnesses, no longer calls himself a witness, is not on file, this means that he can't be disfellowshipped as the person in question could actually sue the elders (the WTBTS wouldn't get involved) He could sue on grounds on discrimination, harrasment, breaking up family etc.
There is no such thing as "can't be disfellowshipped." People can be sued on any grounds in
any situation. Traditionally, the elders are not sued by the members/former members and
courts would probably not rule in members/former members favor in many cases. (That could
change and is slowly changing, though) You would have to threaten with a lawsuit in order for
them to even consider that one might happen. The threat would come before the judicial committee
forms or finishes the case.I feel that the lawsuit could happen, but elders aren't swayed by the possibility unless you remind them
that there will be a lawsuit if they proceed. -
inkling
He could sue on grounds on discrimination, harrasment, breaking up family etc.
Sadly, it would seem that the org wants this to happen even if the person is NOT DFed:
If the sinful conduct is known only to believing family
members and no congregation action is taken because
of the factors outlined above, believing relatives will
likely determine to curtail family association severely,
viewing the relative as bad association.how does this "suggestion" get communicated to the family?
Are they told to shun the person?
[inkling]
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OnTheWayOut
If the sinful conduct is known only to believing family
members and no congregation action is taken because
of the factors outlined above, believing relatives will
likely determine to curtail family association severely,
viewing the relative as bad association.how does this "suggestion" get communicated to the family?
Are they told to shun the person?
In this narrow (but common) definition of the situation, the family are not
TOLD to shun the person. They usually make up their own minds, so
some members will continue to speak and others will shun. -
WTWizard
It is usually possible to get away for a time. Sometimes, depending on how lazy the hounders are or how much extra work they have trying to deal with thinning congregation attendance, you can get away for many years. As long as you stay away from the boasting sessions, they will likely leave you alone. And, if they are determined to get you back for nefarious purposes, they might just look the other way on the sins while making sure you never have the chance to commit them again (so you can go to the Value Destroyer Training School on schedule, for instance).
However, there is always the chance that the hounder-hounder or hounder-hounder-hounder will insist that the hounders hound everyone that is inactive, no matter if it has been 50 years since the person last went to a boasting session. They will insist on dragging them back, and anyone that doesn't want to go (or that has articles that suggest sins) will be in for a judicial hearing. I remember one person that went inactive for a long time, and then went to just one boasting session and got disfellowshipped. Hence, going to even one boasting session is dangerous.
So far, I have gotten away with the following:
- Having Christmas decorations up, that can be seen from the back street.
- Posting on apostate forums, and posting apostate blogs at that.
- Having Crisis of Conscience (and having read three-quarters of it before realizing that my own thinking was as integrated as Raymond Franz).
- Having a Ouija board.
- Buying into a "secret society" after the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger explicitly warned against it.
- Having music in my computer that glorifies Christmas and/or "false" religion
- Having porn on my computer
- Blatant disrespect for the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger.
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Seeker4
I faded for about 6-7 years, and the elders left me alone, for a while.
When my marriage broke up and I was living with my girlfriend, out of the blue the elders came to visit me, prompted, I'm sure, by an over-zealous CO dork. Wanted me to either disassociate myself or meet with them.
I told them they had absolutely no authority in my eyes, what I did was none of their business, and to leave me alone. There was no way I would meet with them.
Their reasoning was that I had been such a prominent elder 10 years before that they had to do something about my openly living in "sin." My case was similar to tnangel's.
I have to disagree with LouBelle's comment. I sent the body of elders an 8 page letter (you can find it on JWD - check my posts a few years back), in which I laid out how they were violating the elder's manual instructions as posted in this thread. I told them I'd sue the body if they bothered me again or dfed me. I heard NOTHING from them again, but did hear through the grapevine about six months later that they announced I was no longer one of JWs.
So, even though I hadn't claimed to be a Witness for 6 years or more, openly spoke against the JWs, was no longer viewed as a JW in the community, openly declared that I didn't recognize their authority and refused to meet with them, they still dfed me. Secretly from me, though, without the mandatory opportunity to appeal, etc.
Because I'd threatened to sue them, I know the letter had to have been sent to Bethel - so their actions had the blessing of the Org.
A body of elders and COs can bend the rules a lot. Your safest bet is to fade quietly. Move if possible. If you're out of the area, they'll almost never bother you. A former MS from the same congregation has been living with his girlfriend for a few years now, and hasn't heard a word from the elders.
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BurnTheShips
I smoke a pipe.
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SnakesInTheTower
OTWO"
There is no such thing as " can't be disfellowshipped
correct...the Borg and local BOE's can and do play by their own rules..
((Sort of like "Free Parking" on the Monopoly game board..."officially" (in the published tournament rules) Free Parking has no purpose other than a safe place to land in the game of Monopoly. However, I think a lot of us that played Monopoly had "house rules" for that space (my favorite...any fines, etc from drawing bad cards, getting out of jail, etc...was put in a pot in the middle of the board...whoever landed on FP got the money in the pot....)))
Similarly, so goes the local BOE's...."officially", a person shouldnt be DF'd as long as they stay away from the KH, are not doing/saying anything against the Borg, and are not committing any blatant "sins"....."unofficially", the local house rules of the local yokel hounders can do whatever the hell they want...and often do....only the most egregious breaking of the official rules will result in a DF being overturned on appeal.... otherwise, MamaBorg will back the local yokels.....cant make the local hounders look bad in the congo by having to overturn a JC decision....sends a bad message that the BOE doesnt know its a$$ from a hole in the ground....
Snakes ()
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Layla33
This just reminded me of someone I grew up with faded to go away to college, came back was real strong in the kingdom hall, then a girl he was having sex with regularly had his baby and she was giving him the child to take care of. Not only was he just privately reproved (which is a joke), he was completely supported with the child and no one said anything else about it. If I am not mistaken, he is an elder now.