Hubby s/w Mr. Flipper on the phone last night for about 1 1/2

by cognac 23 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  cognac

  Mr. Flipper told him all this stuff about the whole pedophilia/ 1975 debacle, everything. They talked for sooooo long... Hubby really listened.

  It started when I called them to talk about how to handle the elders. Then, I thought, hubby should know who I'm talking to. He's accepted me talking on this board, why not push it a bit further???

  Mr. Flipper told him things that I never did. I don't really go into media much with my husband. But, Mr. Flipper told him ALL about the cover-ups, everything... I'm still in shock... I couldn't believe all the things Mr. Flipper told him. It was completely shocking!

  Hopefully, Mr. Flipper can tell you guys more then I did, as I didn't hear the whole conversation...

  Anyways, after them talking, my husband was just thinking about it. He said it was really sad that Mr. Flipper can't go to the elders and talk about this stuff...

  Also, he said, "Mr. Flipper called JWs a cult. I don't really think they are a cult. I think he would be in trouble if the elders knew he felt that way." Anyways, I said we should look up the definition of what a cult is. I said that I believe a cult is when people follow people. And, JWs follow the FDS even over the bible so technically it seems they are a cult. He was just like, "Well, I guess so" or something like that...

  Anyways, it seems he was really glad that he talked to Mr. Flipper. It seems that he's absorbing and thinking about what he said. I'm sure I'll hear more about it.

  Also, he knows how the elders handled a pedophilia and a rape case in our area. They handled it really, really bad. So, I think Mr. Flipper gave him a lot to think about...

  He seems stuck on the idea that you have to be attached to an organization to have a relationship with God no matter what sinful people within that organization do. He feels they have the closest "truth" so this is very confusing for him. He doesn't know how to sort it all out... He does believe that good people outside the org. will be accepted by God, just some people need the org. to feel close to God...

  I just listened, gave a thought or 2 when he asked a question, and accepted how he felt about things...
• 

  thepackage

  Mr. Flipper is AWESOME!!! I had a chance to dpeak with him last week and he was very supportive and thoughtful. Keep up the good work Mr. Flipper!!!!! cognac, keep up your good work with your husband. I really enjoy your post and your current journey!
• 

  Quirky1

  Cognac, It is good to hear that your husband spoke to Mr.Flipper. I hope everything was encouraging but at this point I would agree that it all is.

  I have your other threads concering this but have yet to comment, I think.

  As for Mr. Flipper, I agree with the package, "keep up the good work", maybe one day I can have you speak with my misses and maybe her parents.

  I hope you the best in your endeavors Cognac!

  Quirky1
• 

  nomoreguilt

  I would have to say that after a few converstions on the phone with Mr flipper that he is one of the most upbeat ex jw or jw that I have spoken with.

  Cognac, although I may not post much to your threads I am indeed watching things as they transpire with you. A supportive spouse is a very important asset, unfortunately my ex was not when I needed one. Hang in there kiddo.

  NMG
• 

  dinah

  Hey Cognac,

  I've been keeping up with your story as well, just haven't chimed in much. You're doing a great job, although I fear you should prepare for the worst with your family. The elders do not tolerate questioning. I've met several people online who were booted out because they had the same concerns as you. I'm not trying to discourage you, just be prepared.

  Mr. Flipper is one of the nicest people I haven't met yet. The Flippers are great.

  Girl, once you make your mind up about something, there's no stoppin' ya. Love it!!!
• 

  llbh

  Hey Cognac

  i hope that your hubbie thinks about things that would make things alot easier for you

  I wish you well

  David
• 

  Homerovah the Almighty

  Great sounds like the conversation went well , and might very well stir up the thinking processes

  Mr. Flipper is a cool dude and a smart one too
• 

  cognac

  Great sounds like the conversation went well , and might very well stir up the thinking processes

  Mr. Flipper is a cool dude and a smart one too

  You ain't kidding!
• 

  SnakesInTheTower

  cognac...I agree about Mr. Flipper (and I dont believe he would ever get a swelled head over all the nice things that are being said ..LOL)... I dont get a chance to talk to him like I would like...

  On another note........:

  Also, he knows how the elders handled a pedophilia and a rape case in our area.

  Funny how the Catholics are now handling this vs how the Watchtower is handling this problem.

  The (relatively) new Pope just came out very strongly against priests being pedophiles... it may be too little too late for many victims...but unlike the Society...at least the Catholic Church is a) admitting it publically b) paying victims c) cleaning house d) not putting gag orders on victims after settlements... I am not saying the Catholics are getting this completely right even now..they are not...but it is still better than what MamaBorg is doing....

  note this article today by Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL1564528320080415?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&sp=true

  Snakes ()

  Pope makes first visit to U.S.

  Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:02pm EDT

  By Philip Pullella

  WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Pope Benedict arrived in Washington on his first papal visit to the United States on Tuesday, facing the sexual abuse scandal tarnishing the Roman Catholic Church's image here by declaring himself "deeply ashamed" even before he landed.

  On his flight from Rome, the pope vowed to keep pedophiles out of the priesthood. The scandal of priests sexually abusing youths broke in 2002 and has forced U.S. dioceses to pay over $2 billion in damages. Five have gone bankrupt.

  The six-day visit includes a United Nations address, masses in baseball stadiums and meetings with Catholic educators and leaders of other religions, but the German-born pope sent a signal that he would not avoid the scandal issue.

  "We will absolutely exclude pedophiles from the sacred ministry," Benedict told reporters on his flight. The Church will screen candidates for the priesthood, he said, "so that only really sound persons can be admitted."

  "It is more important to have good priests than to have many priests," Benedict said.

  President George W. Bush greeted the pontiff on arrival at Andrews Air Force Base outside the capital, the first time he has gone to the airport to meet an incoming dignitary. Neither made a public statement, but onlookers sang "Happy Birthday" for Benedict, who turns 81 on Wednesday.

  A Washington Post-ABC news poll published on Tuesday showed almost three-quarters of U.S. Catholics approve of Pope Benedict but most find the Church out of touch with their views and criticize the way the sex abuse scandal was handled.

  Half wanted the pope to stress traditional teachings and 45 percent preferred policies that "reflect the attitudes and lifestyles of modern Catholics."

  'GREAT SUFFERING'

  Benedict said the sexual abuse scandal caused "great suffering" to the Church in the United States and also "for me personally."

  "It's difficult for me to understand how it was possible that priests betrayed in this way their mission to give healing, to give the love of God to these children," he said.

  Several victims of the pedophile priest scandal denounced Benedict's comments as insincere during a news conference in Boston, where the scandal erupted in 2002.

  "He should be ashamed that he is not meeting with survivors and talking with us," said Robert Costello, founder of A Matter of Truth, a Boston-based organization for victims of sexual abuse by priests.

  The pontiff was also to discuss the sensitive topic of immigration with Bush, especially the way it split families and strained "the moral and social fabric" of poor countries.

  "The United States has to help these countries develop," he said on the flight, so their citizens do not feel the need to leave. "It is in the interest of everyone, not only these countries but of the world and particularly of the United States."

  He also praised the role of faith in American public life as an example for more secularized Europe.

  White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said Bush and Benedict would probably discuss "their shared values of human rights and the importance of fighting extremism and also promoting religious tolerance" at the White House on Wednesday.

  During his six-day trip, Benedict will pray at Ground Zero, the site in New York where the World Trade Center was destroyed on September 11, 2001.

  The pope, who marks the third anniversary of his election during the trip, has said he hopes the visit will lead to a spiritual renewal in America. His U.N. address on Friday will aim to highlight the need for greater peace and justice around the world.

  In New York, Benedict will also stop at a synagogue to wish the Jewish community a happy Passover.

  (Additional reporting by Tabassum Zakaria at Andrews Air Force Base; Writing by Tom Heneghan; Editing by Patricia Zengerle)

  © Reuters 2008 All rights reserved
• 

  flipper

  Hello Cognac - Well, well ! How has your day been ? LOL! Thanks for letting me talk to your husband last night - he is a very nice man , who I can tell really does love you , he is just confused as you mentioned about serving God ; or an organization. Cognac asked that I explain what our conversation was - so I'll tell you. First I want to say it was Cognac that requested me to talk with him, she asked, " Would you like to meet my husband ? " And I said , " Sure ! " So I figured O.K.- here is a chance to show him that people she has met here are decent, ( not fire breathing dragons ) as rumor has it , and yet having a knowledge of what Cognac has written on the board here about how he has been open at times to talk with her about witness subjects - I figured, " What the hell. It might make him think about things. "
  
  The conversation started nicely , as I explained to him my wife and I were Cognac's friends who had got to know her over the phone. I disarmed him immediately by saying , " Cognac speaks very highly of you . She loves you a lot , and I want you to know that I think it is great of you to support her in her time of need right now as she is down, depressed , and has some confusion and questions about things in her life . " I explained I was raised in a prominent witness family just like her with a father who is a long term elder ( 55 years ) and proceeded to explain to him a little of my history and the pressure I put on myself living up to my father's expectations. And that the thing that bothered me was my dad put emphasis on the POSITION one had in the organization as opposed to just asking me how my relationship with Jehovah was ! My dad never asked me THAT question. It was always, " How are you reaching out , and advancing in the congregation? Position -wise ? " Her husband asked me , " Your dad never asked you about your relationship with Jehovah ? " I said, " Never. "
  
  That led to a discussion that even though I was a Ministerial Servant for 6 years , gave hour talks and such - I told her husband I just could not stand the injustice by elders giving out their own opinions to people - but not what is in the Bible ! It led me to not want to reach out for elder position. Told him I didn't want to sit in judgment of my brothers and sisters. Then this kind of led to me revealing to him about the NBC news release in November 2007 of how 16 child abuse victims were paid out of court settlements because pedophilia had gone unchecked for years by elders and the WTS - so that these pedophiles moved from state to state molesting children. Then Cognac's husband said, " That's wrong that happened to the children and the elders are supposed to report those offenses to the authorities ! " I said, " One would think so - but I had a long talk in February after calling the Watchtower Bethel legal office and an elder with 40 years experience told me that the first thing elders are instructed to do is call Bethel legal department for instructions when informed of a witness child being molested ! " Then I continued, " I also talked with a local presiding overseer who said they are instructed NOT TO DISCOURAGE witness abuse victims from going to authorities , but they don't encourage the family or victims to do so either- as the Watchtower wants to distance it's name from the situation. " So I told him- it's all about appearance of the Watchtower- not the children's safety as victims !" So, this really made him think I believe.
  
  He tried to play the " imperfection card" by saying the elders are imperfect and that in time Jehovah would take care of it. But I replied, " Child abuse is a felony crime in the United States as serious as murder with lifetime sentences handed down to pedophiles at times ! It's a serious crime that can't be ignored due to " imperfection ". " Then Cognac's husband stated something about Jesus healing a man with a withered hand and saying that people said he healed the man by Beelzebub or Satan's power , and Jesus denied it but said if a good work was being done - it still glorified Jehovah ! I asked him what that had to do with the child abuse subject we were discussing ? He stated , " It shows that when things look bad - it can be a witness to people on the outside that God is taking care of things ! " I said , " Oh. "
  
  Then I went into the new " generation " thinking and asked him what he thought of that ? I asked, " How can the society say that the term generation has no " exact length of time and it cannot be stated except that it does have an end and would not be excessively long ? " ( I quoted exactly from the Watchtower. ) He said , " Don't you believe in the 1,000 year reign? That a paradise is coming ? " I said, well not anymore ! I said," Look. the Watchtower society from the time I was born said that Jesus said " This generation would by no means pass away, until all these things occur ." They are going against that thinking now. These things have already occurred and NOTHING has happened. It's been 94 years since 1914- and President Rutherford told people in the early 1920's that millions now living will never die ! Those people are all dead now ! " I paused and said, " We were all lied to by the Watchtower society. And even though the English dictionary describes a "generation " as 30 to 40 years - they are trying to tell you and me the generation will go on and on ! It won't end until the anointed all die and go to heaven ! And that will never end because the number partaking the emblems goes up each year ! From 8,000 to 9,000 , who knows, might be 10,00 next year ! " I continued- , " It's just a way the Watchtower society keeps their people dialed in- so they won't leave ! It's a ploy and con game , man ! "
  
  So, I told him I respect he has his beliefs , as I do my parents - but I have doubts just like his wife. I told him , " That does NOT make her apostate , or bad, it means she has doubts, confusion, and is trying to get some answers. " I went on , " Some of my witness family, mom and dad support me and respect I have doubts , they don't condemn me for it, some of my family does . But if we are a loving family we will support one another in our various times of need. " I finished with, " Cognac and you are a little family unit. You and her have to be each others support system . It is no one else right to interfere with you keeping peace in your family, during her time of depression. God made you one flesh- it's how it should be ! " So I concluded saying it had been nice meeting him, my wife and I care deeply for Cognac , and I hope we could talk again ! He concluded, " I really did enjoy talking too ! So many times people don't want to talk about it, but by putting our minds together it is how we learn !" I felt good after he made that comment that some of what I said- may have registered ! So, we shall see ! Cognac, good luck to you ! You know where to call my wife and I if you ever need to chat ! Sorry this was so long folks - but felt it important to see how it went down ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper