CNN commentary on Texas taking custody of the children of that sect....

by CaptainSchmideo 48 Replies latest jw friends

  • BizzyBee
    BizzyBee

    Sammieswife:

    Why is it that any time an act is committed in the name of religion, it automatically receives a wink and a nod whereas if the same act is committed by let's say an atheist, it's given a whole other penalty?

    Because we have freedom of religion in this country. We also have due process.

    I don't think there is ever a "wink and a nod" when a child dies because they are denied a life-saving blood-transfusion. I think there is anguish and frustration and heartache, not just for the parents, but also for professionals whose job it is to save lives and protect children. There is a long history of medical providers and legal authorities attempting to circumvent these parental decisions based on religion. Sometimes these battles are successful, more often not.

    The major difference between what has happened to FLDS in Texas and JW's is that the legal authorities in Texas have something to work with - church-sanctioned child sexual abuse. That is what will have to be proven in court and apparently they've got a pretty damn good case.

    The JW issue (and the Catholic church for that matter), is that when child sexual abuse does occur within the ranks, it is officially 'wrong' but protection of the predator takes precedence over protection of the victim - a much tougher 'crime' to prosecute.

  • BizzyBee
    BizzyBee

    Do you REALLY believe the "State" is being 100% truthful on this?

    Warlock

    If the "State" has made a public statement about this, I must have missed it, so I am not sure what "truth" you refer to, Warlock. My understanding is that they are in the process of investigating and gathering evidence about how these children are being raised. Actually, the child protective agencies apparently had enough knowledge of abuse to take this aggressive action. Now they have to make the charges stick. Not to worry, the FLDS Church (and their 400 lawyers) will have ample opportunity to make their defense.

  • 5go
    5go
    But you feel that you can trust faceless bureaucracies? Why the difference?

    But you can trust the faceless churches and masses. Why the difference?

    Get over it government has benefited humanity if you don't think so go to a place that doesn't have one. You are not showing much rationality because government does something you dislike it shouldn't be trusted. But churches and citizens can do it without any question from you.

  • CaptainSchmideo
    CaptainSchmideo

    And then you read this on CNN:

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/17/polygamy.pentagon/index.html

    And you wonder why I don't think you can trust the government?!!

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24

    Salt Lake Tribune - Texas Rangers are investigating previous prank calls by Colorado Springs woman that share some similarities with calls to a women's shelter that helped spark a massive raid of an FLDS compound in Texas. Police arrested Rozita Estraletta Swinton, 33, at her Colorado Springs apartment Wednesday in connection with a February call to police there in which she allegedly pretended to be a young girl being held in a basement, said Colorado Springs police Lt. Skip Adams. ---------------

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24

    The authorities have so far said that they believe there are 5 women around 18 years of age who may be pregnant. They believe.

    Springs woman may have posed as abused cult member

    By Kirk Mitchell The Denver Post Article Last Updated: 04/18/2008 04:08:29 PM MDT
    Rozita Swinton was arrested on a charge of false reporting in February. (Colorado Springs Police) Related

    A former polygamist sect member says a Colorado Springs woman who called her posing as a young abused girl could be the same person whose complaints led to a massive child protection raid in West Texas.

    Flora Jessop, a former Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints member, said she first received a call from a woman, since identified as Rozita Swinton of Colorado Springs, claiming to be an abuse victim named Sarah on March 30.

    Authorities say a girl with the same name called a San Angelo, Texas, hotline March 29, claiming she was 16 and "spiritually married" to a man who would "beat and hurt her" whenever he became angry.

    But the hotline call wasn't publicized until after authorities raided the YFZ Ranch in

    False Report?

    • Browse a slide show of images from the raid on the polygamous sect.
    • Discuss alleged false reporting by a Colorado Springs woman which may be linked to the raid on a polygamous sect in Texas.
    • Watch video about the hundreds of childrens taken into protective custody in the Texas raid.
    • Watch video about the discovery by Texas Rangers of a bed in the polygamist compound's temple.
    Eldorado, Texas, on April 4. There they took custody of more than 400 children.

    "It does kind of indicate (Swinton) made those calls," Jessop said. "There was no press on it at the time."

    Swinton, 33, was arrested at her home Wednesday evening on charges of false reporting in two Colorado cases, but Texas Rangers were present for the arrest, Colorado Springs police said.

    Texas Rangers spokesman Tom Vinger said today he could not comment about Swinton.

    Jessop, who operates a rescue mission for teenage girls trying to escape the sect, said she recorded between 30 to 40 hours of daily phone conversations with Swinton, who alternately claimed to be Sarah, Sarah's twin sister Laura, and Laura's friend.

    "She initially said her name was Sarah and she was sexually abused by her new dad," Jessop said.

    Swinton would call Jessop after 8:30 p.m. at night and speak in a subdued voice because she said that is when others in the compound were sleeping.

    "She was very convincing," Jessop said. "She very much thought this out." The person obviously had studied the FLDS culture, she said.

    Jessop became suspicious and contacted the Texas Rangers after the same person, who sounded like a frightened young girl, called saying she was Sarah's sister, who lived in Colorado City.

    Jessop sent recordings to the Texas Rangers, who traced the calls to Swinton's phone.

    Colorado Springs police arrested Swinton on local charges involving calls in February in which she claimed to be an abused child being held in a basement.

    Swinton also was arrested on a fugitive warrant from Douglas County relating to another false reporting case, according to Colorado Bureau of Investigation records.

    In that case, Det. Sgt. Scott Claton said an adoption agency reported June 21, 2005, that a woman identifying herself as Jessica called, saying she was considering giving up her baby for adoption.

    She later left a letter on the agency's door saying she changed her mind and was considering leaving the infant at a fire station and committing suicide.

    A detective called a number provided by the agency and spoke with the woman for five hours. She claimed to be at a hotel with the infant, but police never learned where she was.

    The woman called back two days later and said she was then looking at a police officer at their station at 100 Perry St. in Castle Rock, Claton said. Police saw a woman drive by in a Kia Sephia and later stopped her.

    The woman, who was actually Swinton, voluntarily returned to the station and spoke to police for a half hour, Claton said.

    "As it turns out, there was no newborn child or a weapon that she was going to hurt herself with," he said. "We never did find out what her reasoning was because she wouldn't talk about that."

    The fire department picked the woman up and left her at a hospital for a voluntary mental hold because she indicated she suicidal, Claton said.

    Swinton was released from the hospital the next day, he said.

    Swinton was charged June 28, 2005, with obstructing police and making a fake police report. She pleaded guilty to the false reporting charge and is currently serving a one-year deferred judgment in the case, according to Douglas County Court records.

    The 16-year-old named Sarah who called the Texas abuse hotline claimed she was beaten and raped by her 50-year-old polygamist husband.

    Shari Pulliam, spokeswoman for the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services, acknowledged that officials have not identified the girl who made that call.

    But she said the state didn't remove children from the compound based solely on that call. Investigators visited the FLDS compound and discovered troubling conditions there, including numerous young girls who were pregnant or had children. That was the basis for removing kids, she said.

    A judge ordered the search of the polygamous compound in Eldorado, 40 miles south of San Angelo. Texas officials say they believe the child does exist.

    The state took legal custody of 416 children, who are being housed at two sites in San Angelo, about 200 miles northwest of San Antonio. Another 139 women voluntarily left the compound operated by the Mormon splinter group.

    Though announcing the Rangers' involvement, Colorado Springs police declined to elaborate on the Texas link, and records in Swinton's Colorado Springs case have been sealed by a judge.

    "The Texas Rangers were in Colorado Springs ... as part of their investigation involving the compound in Texas," a Colorado Spring police news release said.

  • 5go
    5go
    And you wonder why I don't think you can trust the government?!!

    Like I said irrational. Read up on past dealing of the church and the masses. Yep bad apples are in government but their are worse groups out there that you don't seem to have problems trusting. Even then government has a much better tract record of right it's own wrongs than most groups. See the last thousand years of the Roman Catholic Church as an example. They only recently apologized for some thing they did a five hundred years ago.

    The problem is the government does things you do not like ( like make mistakes like most groups of humans do ). Then in turn you say it can't be trusted ever for anything. I hate the bad things the government does but in the end I know the people running it for the most part think they are doing and trying to do the right thing. Yes some times government is misguided but it is better than the alternative. Which is relying on god to do it for us. Which is really saying every man for himself in the name of god.

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24

    An interesting bit of information came into play about this the other day.

    It seems that Texas law states that up until 2005 (and I don't know the exact month), the legal age of marriage was 14 years of age and that was changed to 16 years of age then. There is also some question now about the 'reasonable' right of the State to invade and search the compound if in fact the woman who was recording the calls from the imposter, knew ahead of time that this person was not real and neglected to notify Texas authorities before they made their move.

    I do think taking the DNA of everyone is the right way to proceed at this point but the debt load to the State is going to be enormous if the legal beagles for the FLDS sue and all this drags out for months. This is such an interesting case. sammieswife.

  • carla
    carla

    According to an attorney on tv, she said first of all consent of marriage at that young of age had to be judicial not parental furthermore these are not state recognized marriages but 'spritirual' and therefore do not constitute marriage in the eyes of the courts anyway. As for the original phone call being a hoax or not is neither here nor there. Officials went in under the assumptions that the info was good and according to ATF any 'proof' found at that time will hold up in a court of law. Seeing girls who appear as young as 13 pregnant is the proof needed to see abuses of some kind were going on and I for one believe children should not be raped in the name of 'god' on a bed in the middle of the temple. But that's just me, I think it is our duty as citizens to protect children and others who cannot speak for themselves.

    This is a 'special' compound in which one had to be invited to, these were the 'cream of the crop'. The other compounds in other states have many children who due to so much inbreeding have many, many health problems including spina bifida, cleft palate, down syndrome and many other health problems typically associated with inbreeding.

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