Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 4-20-08 WT Study (Presence)

by blondie 35 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  hillary_step

  Neil,

  No, parousia means 'presence' in not just Modern Greek but also in the Koine and Classical Greek and this is where Leolaia's nonsense and that of other apostates fails because it is based on a lie. Apostates want to rewrite the Greek Lexicons as they have this crazy notion that parousia means 'coming'. The Society under the tutelage of 'celebrated WT scholars have finally got the right interpretation of the Mathean 'generation' and everyone is happy about that except the 'evil slave' class'.

  As you know, the issue is whether the term 'parousia' is more correctly translated as 'arrival' when applied to Royalty, as it was to the Roman Army and clearly was when describing the arrival of Christ in his return. The WTS has long held to a dichotonous view of this word, applying it as they see fit when it suits their particular theology and ignoring its usage when it does not.

  Of course you know this but are, as ever, living in never-never land.

  HS
• 

  BluesBrother

  Well I attended this morning , and even my passive soul got indignant.. I really wanted to raise my hand and tell them that their scholarship is rubbish, that they are being led by people who are out to cover their @ss after being so wrong for decades, with this illustration

  

  The worst thing was at the end with elders commenting that "It does not matter" [meaning that we 'leave it in Jehovah's hands and carry on grazing like good little sheep] or another comment "It relieves us of the burden of having to try and work out when the end may come" - Do they not care??

  Anyway, my comments :

  The only way this "explanation" works is to change the meanng of what they have in the Bible. If Jesus said "This generation" then he was speaking of the people of roughly the same age group ,whatever their beliefs would be. If he had meant to refer to the congregation, he would have said so, and not used the word translated as generation . Am I not right? The WT seems to want to change the words of the English language to fit their misplaced predictions.

  P17 said "our understanding ....helps to intensify our feelings of urgency"...Oh yes? it seems that they are instead settled down to lead a good life, serve God, await death and look for a resurrection , not see Armageddon.
• 

  oompa

  Scholar:

  No, parousia means 'presence' in not just Modern Greek but also in the Koine and Classical Greek and this is where Leolaia's nonsense and that of other apostates fails because it is based on a lie. Apostates want to rewrite the Greek Lexicons as they have this crazy notion that parousia means 'coming'. The Society under the tutelage of 'celebrated WT scholars have finally got the right interpretation of the Mathean 'generation' and everyone is happy about that except the 'evil slave' class'.

  HAHAHA! Dude, they also interpret Theos and Kyrios as Jehovah 237 times for crying out loud!!! talk about lyin bastards.....oompa
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Hey, OTWO, I know my comments aren't that in depth. I wasn't convinced of the hypocrisy of the WTS by its doctrines but because of its lack of love, It is possible to miss the understanding of a prophecy, but how "educated" do you have to be to know how to have and show "real" love?

  Oh, I fully understand. Not all (well hardly any) of the JW members can follow deep
  logical development of doctrine and the twists applied by WTS. Most of us just knew
  that when they offered a complicated explanation, they must be right to be so detailed.

  I always broke it down to be easier to understand. I did catch some logic flaws along the
  way here and there, but my mind wasn't prepared to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

  I appreciate your look at things from the approach of love, concern, misapplication of
  terms. Keep up the good work.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  From Scholar:
  
  Celebrated WT scholars have long last published clarification of that moxt vexed phrase 'this generation' in the Synoptic Gospels. Christendom's scholars have had great difficulty in making sense of the Olivet Discourse so this correct understanding of matters is of benefit to all peoples. Your critical attitude to this Watchtower reflects the foolishness of Leolaia who has posted a biased critiqued of this material.

  Her article contains many assumptions and flaws and is a dishonest attempt to rewrite or substitute the meaning of parousia as 'coming' rather than 'presence' for apostates hate the simple fact that this Greek word means presence and not coming.

  Celebrated WT scholars have long last published clarification of that moxt vexed phrase 'this generation' in the Synoptic Gospels.

  Is that what they say everytime they print "new light?" Why does the current article make it look
  like there was no doubt about what Jesus meant, yet WT got it wrong again and again until suddenly
  getting it right?

  the simple fact that this Greek word means presence and not coming.

  Who's being overly-simple here? Without argument on what the ancient definition was, just look at
  what was being said:
  
  Lord, even though you never spoke of an invisible presence, please give us a sign so that we will know
  that you are already present.

  OR

  Lord, we want to be on high alert to be there to greet you and tell others about your arrival. Please give
  us a sign so that we will know when your royal arrival is about to take place.
• 

  watson

  Seems like a sign ought to alert you to something right in front of you, or empending. Not to be deciphered/interpreted several decades later so you can look back and confirm.
• 

  Robert222

  Thanks Blondie I enjoy your WT comments.

  I was thinking if this study doesn't get people to wake up nothing will. The obvious "chosen" ones in Brooklyn know nothing more about bible predictions than any person picking up the bible and reading it. How can those few chosen annointed in Brooklyn be WRONG for something like 130 years??

  I hope those sitting in the KH are happy with stagnation in their lives - no friends, no celebrations, no education, no job promotions, just handing out free religious materials door to door waiting for millions to die at armaggedon.
• 

  RULES & REGULATIONS

  10. Previously, this journal has explained that in the first century, "this generation" mentioned at Matthew 24:34 meant "the contemporaneous generation of unbelieving Jews."* That explanation seemed reasonable because all other recorded uses that Jesus made of the term "generation" had a negative connotation, and in most cases, Jesus used a negative adjective, such as "wicked," to describe the generation. (Matt. 12:39; 17: 17; Mark 8:38) Thus, it was felt that in the modern-day fulfillment, Jesus was referring to the wicked "generation" of unbelievers who would see both the features that would characterize "the conclusion of the system of things" (syn.te'lei.a) and the system's end (te'los).
  
  11. It is true that when Jesus used the word "generation" negatively, he was speaking to or about the wicked people of his day. But was that necessarily true of his statement recorded at Matthew 24:34? Recall that four of Jesus' disciples had approached him "privately." (Matt. 24:3) Since Jesus did not use negative qualifiers when speaking to them about "this generation," the apostles would no doubt have understood that they and their fellow disciples were to be part of the "generation" that would not pass away "until all these things [would] occur."

  Blondie....another great job with many great questions on your part!

  Notice the wording they use to finagle out of what they have taught for years! You only need to stand back a little and see that the ''light'' just went out. Either you see it or you don't.

  10.''That explanation seemed reasonable because all other recorded uses that Jesus made of the term "generation" had a negative connotation, and in most cases, Jesus used a negative adjective, such as "wicked," to describe the generation. (Matt. 12:39; 17: 17; Mark 8:38) Thus,it was felt that in the modern-day fulfillment, Jesus was referring to the wicked "generation" of unbelievers who would see both the features that would characterize "the conclusion of the system of things" (syn.te'lei.a) and the system's end (te'los).''
  
  11. It is true that when Jesus used the word "generation" negatively, he was speaking to or about the wicked people of his day. But was that necessarily true of his statement recorded at Matthew 24:34? Recall that four of Jesus' disciples had approached him "privately." (Matt. 24:3) Since Jesus did not use negative qualifiers when speaking to them about "this generation," the apostles would no doubt have understood that they and their fellow disciples were to be part of the "generation" that would not pass away "until all these things [would] occur."
• 

  scholar

  hilary_step

  Post 8010

  Certainly 'arrival' is far better than 'coming' as it approximates that locative aspect inherent in the word 'presence' Coming is simply momentary rather than the static sense conveted by 'being present'. However, all Greek Lexicons give 'presence' as a primary meaning and 'arrival' or 'coming' as secondary meanings for parousia. Theological dictionaries call attention to the Technical Meaing of parousia when applied to the arrival or coming of a royal personage on a visit which of course terms such as 'coming' or 'arrival' are usually applied. However, in the case of Jesus Christ the meaning of presence is the only choice for it is made necessary by the context, etymology, discernment by His disciples, worldwide location by the use of the 'lightning' metaphor and its invisibility because it is not easily recognizable and deceived by false prophets.

  All of these exegetical facts prove that parousia means 'presence' and 'presence' alone.

  scholar JW
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  Post 1739

  If you cannot stand the heat then get out of the kitchen.

  scholar JW