by Pathofthorns 10 Replies latest jw friends
Hey Friend.
I see you're encouraging letter writing to the Society on blood. Can u please give some tips on what to include. I figure i'd like to include your (lol) research paper as well. Very well written.
Also can i have permission to use some of your arguments posted on the various discussion boards?
Thanks
Path
As one who has read some of your previous missives, I would really enjoy seeing your version should you decide to write it.
You have a talent for writing. Have you ever thought of exploring it further?
Hope all is going well. Any updates on those other situations we discussed? Drop me a note or ICQ and let me know how things are going.
Kismet
Hey Kismet
Things are more or less the same which is good, and matters discussed worked themselves out fine. Because of my nature being what it is, there is always something in the works.
But I would like to move on from all of this, much as you been working to do yourself. I am interested in writing to the Society on this matter (and others too at later dates). I'm not afraid to write them. I just want to be fair and see what they would have to say on various matters.
I'm very interested in whether they would at my request try to refute the information in jwbloodreview.ogr or how they would address it. I think it is important to write in if one is able and feels comfortable about the matter. I think they will have some moral obligation to either refute the information that research paper contains or else change their policy.
I'll let u know what sort of response i recieve, if any at all. I somehow think my response will be/include a "personal visit" . Won't that be nice.
Anyway, I think you already know what response I will get, but why ruin the surprise for me . Hope everything is going well for you.
Path
Hey Path,
I'll let u know what sort of response i recieve, if any at all. I somehow think my response will be/include a "personal visit" . Won't that be nice.Have your coffee ready. Beer's not an appropriate beverage for a couple of elders and/or CO on a "spiritual visit." Might make more sense in view of the conversation, but not appropriate.
Can we start a survey on who here does/does not think you'll have a Fine Visit by your Local Elders if you politely question the WTBTS about their scriptural stand on infusing blood/blood components into your body in case of dire need?
I vote - Yes, you will have a visit.
Others?
waiting
If Path can be associated with the congregation he is currently attending the Society will, in all probability, send Path's letter (not a copy) to that congregation and suggest that the elders call on him. The nature of the call will depend on the 'tone' of the letter. If it's viewed as a 'genuine and sincere question' from a 'troubled but sincere Christian', it will be dealt with accordingly. Remember that the elders and/or the C.O. will have no information other than what has been published by the Society on the blood matter. They will simply re-state the policy of the FDS. Any arguments that Path may make with them will never reach the Society.
If he's skillful enough he can plant seeds of doubt in their minds and still present the picture of the 'perfect but confused publisher'
I don't know that this is what he wants to do but if it is it can be done.
-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
Pathofthorns
I see you're encouraging letter writing to the Society on blood. Can u please give some tips on what to include. I figure i'd like to include your (lol) research paper as well. Very well written.Also can i have permission to use some of your arguments posted on the various discussion boards?
Such a letter should be sincere and written courteously though clearly spelling out your conclusion, view or any suggestions. You should endorse your letter and ask for a reply by requesting that each of your concerns be addressed and answered in order for your concerns to be alleviated. Do not fear expressing the extent of your concern, but keep that expression of concern focused on the subject of the letter. Be painfully careful to avoid straying onto other issues. Address your letter to the Writing Department or else the Chairman’s Committee of the Governing Body. I do not know where you live, but this letter should be sent to the Brooklyn offices of the Society.
Write the letter with enough forethought that the Society will think twice before sending it along to any local body of elders. Remember, if the Society sends your letter along to a local elder body (or branch) then they will be sending your reasoning to them and actually asking them to examine it in order to perhaps question you. If your letter contains strong arguments that in effect debunk a teaching (or at least create serious doubt on the subject) then the Society will not send it out to local elders because they will not want to inadvertently stir legitimate concerns among them on the subject of your letter. This presents a catch 22 for the Society, that is if they are a mind to have some elder or elders look into the matter. If your letter is written respectfully (courteously) and with sincerity then that is all the more reason that they would never send it along to a local elder body.
If the intent is to stir the air for needed change on a subject, then give your appeal a scriptural theme. If you have some personal experience like being unable to defend "our" abstain from blood policy to a concerned and well reasoned physician who also enjoys Biblical discussions, then that could also be a helpful basis for the letter. (Or you might have some other experience that also works well to provide a basis for writing the letter) You need to provide a reason for writing this letter other than "I read something good and want to share it with you." Your reasons need to be personal though everyday; sincere though perhaps divergent; powerful though not addressed in "our" publications; provocative though out of concern. Finally, it would be beneficial to speak of the Society’s teachings as "our" teaching or "our" position rather than "your" teaching or "your" position. Make the letter powerful but personal.
As for anything I have written on the subject, feel free to use it. That is exactly why it is out there. I suggest that you avoid using my words verbatim because English is not my first language and my command of that language is not very good, or any for that matter. Besides, the letter and arguments should be yours, which means that those arguments must be understood and believed to the extent that you can pointedly present the essential elements while putting them into your own words.
Friend
Hey Friend,
the Society sends your letter along to a local elder body (or branch) then they will be sending your reasoning to them and actually asking them to examine it in order to perhaps question you. If your letter contains strong arguments that in effect debunk a teaching (or at least create serious doubt on the subject) then the Society will not send it out to local elders because they will not want to inadvertently stir legitimate concerns among them on the subject of your letter.That's a fine idea to Path. I've read his letters before - he's quite capable of presenting ligitimate concerns and information with credible, courteous, questions.
However, local elders might be suspicious of any jw who is not attending meetings, particularily if they are gathering information as we speak. A "catch 22" for the questioning party also, don't you think?
I think, in my circumstances, I'll let sleeping dogs lie. I hope Path considers carefully his circumstances.
English is not my first language and my command of that language is not very good,Now that really bothers me. I can't keep up with you in my native language - and it's not even your native language. Man.....
May I ask which language are you more fluent than English?
waiting
Thank you for the replies. They are most helpful.
Friend
So nice to that you could drop by. As "waiting" implied, your english is so good, that it leaves me wondering where that leaves the rest of us.
I am still confused however at the path my letter will travel when i send it. Can u please explain this more clearly?
Why do i send it to Brooklyn and not my local branch?
Can I send a copy of my letter to my local elders as well, thus making them aware of what i am doing, while at the same time making sure they get all the information I am actually sending?
Can u give me a specific example of a mailing address I would put on an envelope so that it reaches the intended destination, whatever that is? (i know that sounds rediculous, but i want to be sure)
How long does a reply generally take? What are my odds of a written response especially if i specifically request one? I have no intention of meeting with the elders as they have already expressed ignorance and/or used unsound reasoning in this matter.
I would assume you have written in yourself, submitting information presented in jwresearch.com. What has your response been to this?
Thanks,
Path
waiting
However, local elders might be suspicious of any jw who is not attending meetings, particularly if they are gathering information as we speak. A "catch 22" for the questioning party also, don't you think?Elders do not usually become suspicious of a publisher that has become inactive or stopped attended meetings. They are more apt to be concerned for them, though that is not always apparent. Those men are usually so exhausted from making a living, taking care of their own families, preparing congregation meetings, etc. that they to often are just too run down to do the needed pastoral shepherding. Too often they are the ones falling ill from running themselves to death. Just think about how many former elders are out there.
I don’t know what you mean about "gathering information" in relation to pathofthorns. But I do know that for reasons I described the Society is unlikely to send copies of his correspondence to local elders.
May I ask which language are you more fluent than English?Regretfully I cannot answer that question.
pathofthorns
I am still confused however at the path my letter will travel when i send it. Can u please explain this more clearly?If sending to the Writing Department address your envelope:Why do i send it to Brooklyn and not my local branch?
Can u give me a specific example of a mailing address I would put on an envelope so that it reaches the intended destination, whatever that is? (i know that sounds ridiculous, but i want to be sure)
Watchtower Bible & Tract Society
Writing Department
25 Columbia Heights
Brooklyn, NY USA 11201
Address you letter accordingly, that is to the Writing Department.
If sending to the Chairman’s Committee address your envelope simply as:
Watchtower Bible & Tract Society
25 Columbia Heights
Brooklyn, NY USA 11201
Then on your letter address it to the Governing Body, Chairman’s Committee.
If you send this letter to your local branch it may not get to where it will do the most good. Again, send it to Brooklyn. Though the local branch would probably return some reply, on the subject in question they are not authorized to return any reply other than the perfunctory. Frankly, they probably will not even forward your letter. At best all they would do is include some remarks about similar correspondence they have received in the way of a regular report to Brooklyn.
Because headquarters (Brooklyn) does not want branch committees seeing any more of this stuff than they have to, they may either answer you directly, effectively dictate a letter for your branch to send out to you or else they will reply to you and copy your branch with that response. Branch offices will hold such letters in the event that local elders call them about you raising the question then they can say, "Yes, we know of his correspondence with Brooklyn, and they answered him. Is there some problem?" Unless you provoke some local concern over this subject your local elders will probably never know you wrote. In the meantime, if you write to the Society you will have sent a message to those who are best able to do something. The more well reasoned and endorsed letters from Witnesses that Brooklyn receives on this issue the more those who want to make changes are empowered to do something.
Can I send a copy of my letter to my local elders as well, thus making them aware of what i am doing, while at the same time making sure they get all the information I am actually sending?Of course you can do what you suggest, but I advise against it. This is not an issue that local elders can do anything about unless they take it upon themselves as individuals or as a body to write in with their own well reasoned letter including a corresponding suggestion for change. Unless you feel that your local elders will react that way then I suggest that you simply keep this matter between you and the Brooklyn offices of the Watchtower Society. There are men there can and want to do something about it, but like everyone else, they need support. Well reasoned letters are one means to provide such support. That is true regardless of what sort of reply that you may get back. The letter will do its work by it being sent and not by any reply you may get personally.
How long does a reply generally take? What are my odds of a written response especially if i specifically request one? I have no intention of meeting with the elders as they have already expressed ignorance and/or used unsound reasoning in this matter.I do not know where you live. Responses can take anywhere from 3 or 4 weeks to a few months, if you get one at all. I recommend that you send you letter some way so that you can verify that it was received because that is the main thing. Many carriers have online tracking systems so that you can know. Please keep in mind that the reply to you is not where the letter is doing the most good. The most good comes from giving more support to those that see a need and want to do something about it.
I would assume you have written in yourself, submitting information presented in jwresearch.com. What has your response been to this?There is nothing I talk about as Friend that I have not spoken about to men at Brooklyn. Because of my circumstances feedback that I get may or may not be similar to what you could get. An average publisher writing in on the subject we speak of can usually expect a courteous reply that basically says that your letter was received and your thoughts noted. There is usually some conclusion that encourages that you keep up the fight of the faith and remain active in preaching. But, again, the reply is not the important thing. If it provides any encouragement, the Society continues using me in various capacities that are deemed "privileges." Of course you only have my anonymous word for that, but hopefully my actions that you know of are worthy of some small measure of trust. Otherwise you can read from the Society’s literature where suggesting doctrinal change is acceptable and fine as long as the publisher is not stirring contentions. If it makes you feel more comfortable then in writing you can even reference such comments in your letter.
I hope these comments prove helpful to you. In the end only you can decide what is the best thing for your circumstances.
Friend
Thank you for your reply Friend. I will try to weigh out what you have suggested.
I'm just concerned at the possibility of no reply or an inadequate one. Some questions simply beg answers and it is frustrating.
I find the information in the jw-bloodreview.org deserves to be refuted or else the conclusion should stand. Any delay in making changes incurs moral responsibility, especially when those who sent such letters enclosing the research have reciepts stating Brooklyn recieved letters by a specific date.
How does the Society respond to this?? Why does it all move so slow, yet so quickly when it wants or has to? Why do people almost have to force their hand to do something??
Path
