What's sad is what will happen to the children being wards of the state. They did break a few laws but now the kids will be the ones suffering for it mostly .If they didn't target young girls I would say who cares how many wives you have but these kids are shut off from the world. Today tho the US does lead the world in teen pregnancy anyway.
Is anybody else both fascinated and creeped out...
by Jewel 30 Replies latest jw friends
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Galileo
A few years ago Jon Krakauer wrote an absolutely amazing and astonishing book on this sect, as well as the history of the mormons in general and their various spin offs, called: "Under The Banner of Heaven". Definitely worth a read for anyone here.
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CoonDawg
I'm sorry, but the part that fascinates me and creeps me out is how this group is singled out and how their rights have been trampled. Granted, I think there's something wrong with this insular cult and their prediliction with underage marriage. However, unless something has happened in the media since this story broke, technically speaking, every one of those marriages complies with Texas law. The alleged whistleblower apparently doesn't exist. Every one of these cases should be handled on a family by family basis yet this group justice seems to be the way things will be handled. It's easy to explain away the trampling of basic rights as americans until they come for you.
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undercover
It's interesting to hear JWs talk about this situation.
They condemn the church leaders for allowing the abusing of women and children and then go on about how anyone could allow themselves to be brainwashed into such a cult.
Oh, the irony of it all...
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Jewel
However, unless something has happened in the media since this story broke, technically speaking, every one of those marriages complies with Texas law.
Well, it seems to me that anything AFTER the first wife probably does NOT comply with Texas law. In addition, Texas law also expressly forbids the marriage (consenting or not) of anyone under the age of 16. At least one girl is 16, has been considered to be "married" (in a spiritual way, though it seems these old guys bring the physical into it pretty quickly--what with having a room with a bed for consumations right there in the temple) and already has 4 kids. Let's see, 16 minus one year per child....ummmm think that might have been below the age of consent-even if she had been convinced she was doing "the prophet's" will.
They condemn the church leaders for allowing the abusing of women and children and then go on about how anyone could allow themselves to be brainwashed into such a cult.
Oh, the irony of it all...
I guess the fact that I was a Witness-and (at least briefly) a real believer-that makes this both horrifying and fascinating...there but for the resumpmtion of independent thought...
I don't feel a bit sorry for the adults (the real adults). It's one thing to take on a religious life of hell on earth, but another to impose it on your kids. Any adult (as in over 18) woman who stood by and watched 14yo girls married off against their will deserves to lose her children. I was able to come up for air long enough to get out before I had to become a "submissive wife" so I'd like to think I wouldn't have stood by and watched it happen to young girls without trying to blow the whistle....
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FlyingHighNow
At least the org doesn't make the poor sisters wear those hideous dresses. That is if you don't count the dresses with ugly prints and huge crocheted collars that sisters wear.
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joebin
and the hairdos...
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Not Feeling It
I'm sorry, but the part that fascinates me and creeps me out is how this group is singled out and how their rights have been trampled. Granted, I think there's something wrong with this insular cult and their prediliction with underage marriage. However, unless something has happened in the media since this story broke, technically speaking, every one of those marriages complies with Texas law.
Hey CoonDog,
I'm very intereseted in your take here. I had the same thoughts as you when this first started to go down. I think my mind changed a bit when I heard that there may be substantial inbreeding of the incestuous and underage fashion going on there. That is disgusting and should not stand. I think it is a slippery slope to tread but someone has to take care of children if thier religion/social group will not. I think even thier definition of parents is flawed and/or confused.
I believe strongly in protecting the rights of CONSENTING ADULTS. If that relates to sex, drugs, and rock-and-roll so be it. But in this case it is not hard to show there were not adults involved. And the consent looks more like distorted compulsion to get with some horny old guys.
The WT policy on blood is on similar footing. I think when they make life-threatening decisions for kids based on interpretation of scripture it is similar to what is going on in FLDS. Albeit FLDS isn't killing thier children.
As a side note, I think most or all of the people related to that cult that I've seen on TV are TOTALLY creepy. But I certainly don't think creepy equals right to take your kids away.
I hope there is a speedy resolution to as many of the cases as possible whether that be the return of children to thier rightful parents or continued protection from sexual abuse.
- Not Liking It
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JK666
The latest:
By MICHELLE ROBERTSOfficials wrap up DNA testing on polygamist sect kids 4/23/2008 1:55:00 PM Associated Press/AP Online SAN ANGELO, Texas - Texas authorities said Wednesday they had finished taking DNA samples from all the children housed at a coliseum since being removed from a polygamist compound more than two weeks ago.
Roughly 500 samples were taken from the children at the San Angelo Coliseum beginning Monday as child welfare officials try to sort out the complicated family relationships at the ranch compound of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
Spokeswoman Janece Rolfe said the testing at the coliseum was completed late Tuesday, but technicians are still taking samples from parents in Eldorado. The technicians also still had to complete taking samples from the two dozen adolescent boys who were sent last week to a boys ranch in Amarillo.
Child Protective Services moved 114 children from the coliseum on Tuesday to foster facilities. They've declined to say when the other children might be moved, but a half dozen buses arrived at the coliseum on Wednesday morning.
The children eagerly waved and smiled at television cameras, even as attorneys for the children complained they weren't warned their clients would be moved so quickly.
A hearing was scheduled for Wednesday afternoon for lawyers representing the children to air concerns about how the children will be cared for in foster homes.
State District Judge Barbara Walther signed the order Tuesday allowing the state to move the children into temporary foster care while the state completes DNA testing and develops individual custody and treatment plans.
DNA testing at the coliseum included mothers who were allowed to stay there with children ages 5 and younger. Another testing site was set up Tuesday in the Eldorado courthouse square, closer to the Yearning For Zion Ranch, for other adults.
Women in prairie-style dresses and men with shirts buttoned to their necks arrived a few at a time to let technicians swab inside their mouths.
Their lawyers said many believe the testing is invasive and unnecessary.
"We've told them to cooperate, but there are a lot of people who are reluctant," said Cynthia Martinez, a spokeswoman for the Legal Aid attorneys who represent dozens of mothers. "There's a perception there that the state will be using it to separate them" rather than reunite them with their children.
David Williams, a former member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, arrived from Nevada to give a DNA sample.
Clutching photos of his boys, ages 5, 7 and 9, Williams looked at his feet as he said his children were "taken hostage by the state."
"I have been an honorable American and father and I have carefully sheltered my children from the sins of this generation," Williams said. He denied the children living at the ranch were abused.
Susan Hays, an attorney for a toddler in state custody, said some of the fathers may have left the state, fearing that the tests are really designed to help prosecutors make criminal abuse cases.
The state won the right to put the children in foster care on suspicion that FLDS members pushed underage girls into marriage and sex and that all the children raised in the church are in danger of being victims or becoming predators.
CPS spokesman Darrell Azar said child welfare officials want to move the children to a more homelike setting.
"They need to be out of the limelight," he said. "Children can't get into a normal routine in a shelter."
CPS said it will try to place mothers under 18 with their children and to keep sibling groups together. Some of the families may have dozens of siblings.
Boys ages 8 and older will likely be placed in a setting similar to the Boys Ranch near Amarillo where dozens of teen boys were taken last week.
A CPS document lists facilities all around Texas - as far as Houston, about 500 miles away - where the children may be placed in what is one of the largest custody cases in U.S. history.
All the children are supposed to get individual hearings before June 5 to help determine whether their parents may be able to take steps to regain custody or they'll stay in state custody.
FLDS spokesman Rod Parker said at a news conference Tuesday in Salt Lake City that Texas doesn't know how to handle sect children, and that efforts to keep them from being moved have been ignored.
"These people are not equipped to handle these children," said Parker. "They don't know anything about these children."
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Associated Press Writer Jennifer Dobner in Salt Lake City contributed to this report.
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5go
The thing that creeps me out that so many on this board think that this is some slippery slope to something. No, the slippery slope was letting this happen for so long under the guise of religious freedom.
Like I said some people in the US think child rape and murder are OK as long as it is in the name of Jesus, and not Allah.