Illegal Immigrants in Congregations

by joelbear69 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • blondie
    blondie

    *** w77 3/15 pp. 191-192 Questions From Readers ***

    A man I know is progressing toward Christian baptism, but his visa to be in this country has expired. What should I advise him?

    You certainly should commend him for desiring to know and follow God’s counsel. The Scriptures urge Christians to be law-abiding, to pay to Caesar what is Caesar’s. (Matt. 22:21) Hence, it would be good for you to urge this man to do what he can to rectify his status, which may at present be considered that of an illegal alien.

    Evidently he is not stealing, lying, living in immorality or otherwise violating God’s moral laws plainly stated in the Bible. We mention this because a person who is breaking God’s laws must repent and turn around before he will qualify for Christian baptism. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Acts 26:20; 2:38) But, this man wants to know, What about complying with the laws of the land, such as in his case?

    The Bible advises Christians to obey the laws of the land in all matters where there is no conflict with God’s law. (Rom. 13:1; Acts 5:29) The apostle explained that by doing this we will not need to fear punishment from the authorities who punish lawbreakers. Also, we can thus have a clear conscience.—Rom. 13:3-5.

    Still, God’s Word does not charge the Christian congregation, through its overseers, with the obligation to become acquainted with all the details of civil and criminal law so as to enforce these. We can see this in how Paul handled the case of Onesimus.

    Onesimus was a slave of a Colossian Christian named Philemon. For some selfish reason Onesimus fled to Rome so he could lose himself in the masses of people there; he may even have robbed his master before fleeing. In Rome as a runaway slave (Latin, fugitivus) Onesimus came in contact with Paul, became a Christian and ministered to Paul. In time the apostle urged Onesimus to return to his legal master, Paul even encouraging Philemon to receive Onesimus as a brother and to treat him kindly.—Philem. 8-22.

    Take note that while Onesimus was in Rome the apostle Paul did not hand him over to the Roman authorities for punishment as a fugitive slave and possibly a thief. We know from his writings that Paul believed that a Christian should obey the law of the land, but plainly he did not consider it the congregation’s duty to serve as an arm of the government in policing individuals’ lives. Also, we can observe that Onesimus’ situation was not treated as a barrier to his getting baptized. Eventually Onesimus, likely motivated by counsel such as had been written earlier in Romans 13:1-5 and by Paul’s personal urgings, chose to return to his legal master.

    The Christian congregation today follows a course harmonious with this Biblical pattern. It does not, before allowing a person to get baptized or continue in the congregation, check to see if someone’s home meets every detail of the building code, whether he has satisfied every detail as to his legal status in the country, and so forth.

    This by no means suggests that God’s people care little about Caesar’s laws. On the contrary, we are well known as a people who strive to be law-abiding; many governmental officials have praised Jehovah’s Witnesses for this. It is even as Paul wrote about obeying the government, "Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it."—Rom. 13:3.

    In particular should men who take the lead in the congregation be exemplary in this respect. The Bible says about elders and ministerial servants that they should be "irreprehensible," ‘having a fine testimony from people on the outside’ and being "free from accusation." (1 Tim. 3:2, 7, 10) Thus a Christian who chooses to ignore well-known legal requirements of "Caesar" would hardly be in position to be recommended for such offices in the congregation. Men recommended for such privileges should be ones "holding firmly to the faithful word," not only in what they say, but also in how they choose to live, including their applying the counsel to pay "Caesar’s things to Caesar."—Titus 1:7-9.

    True, each individual, Christian or not, is personally responsible as to whether he complies with civil laws. Yet, it will be kind on your part to share with your acquaintance these Scriptural thoughts. Indeed, the Bible’s counsel to be obedient to governmental laws is wise and for our good. By applying it Christians can avoid troublesome problems and enjoy a clear conscience in serving God.

  • yknot
    yknot

    This is a problem within the spanish congos in Texas too.....

    The WTS doesn't really care...

    There is the part in the Elder Manual about baptism and illegal aliens, and the men are not allowed to have 'positions' within the KH. But FS participation, and donating.......well the WTS takes it from whomever will give it.

    As for immigration authorities......there aren't enough, territories are hugh, and holding facilities are full.

    Also many larger cities act as havens, where local police departments refuse to arrest those committing this crime.

    Not that I don't feel some sympathy but.......if I break the law regarding income (taxes) or stealing (taking something that is not yours or you are not entitled too) well hello judge, fines, jail-time, probation, and a permanent record.

    Sorry for rant......my families income has been cut in half due to illegal labor.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    I JoeyBear.

    There are many, many illegals in the congos. In my own Spanish congo, there were as many as a third during the harvest season. I used to bring a dozen into the meetings in a big green van. They don't get special privs such as Elder or MS. But they get everything else. They aren't "hiding" there, and it is not the Org's job to enforce immigration law either.

    They are the best demographic to recruit. Uprooted, a sense of community and porpouse wins them over. I personally think they are the sole reason why there is still growth in the US.

    Burn

  • Layla33
    Layla33
    Should they be turning in speeders as well, how about people that park in handicapped spots illegally. Being here illegally is a not a felony, it is not even a misdemeanor. I don't know of any church that checks on people's citizenship status before they are allowed to enter. even limiting their roles in the congregation is going too far as far as i am concerned.

    Sorry that is simply not true:

    • Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:
    • Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
    • Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
    • Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;

    has committed a federal crime.

    Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.

    "Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

    Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

    A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

    * assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

    * encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

    * knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

    Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

    _________________________________________________

    What happens when you help someone who has entered a country without any checks whatsoever, that person could be a rapist, a child molester or on the run in his or her own country, therefore by harboring someone that has committed a crime for illegally occupying a country they refuse to enter legally, but you enabling someone who may have a varied criminal past. It is wrong and it is not a low level crime.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    What happens when you help someone who has entered a country without any checks whatsoever, that person could be a rapist, a child molester or on the run in his or her own country, therefore by harboring someone that has is not only a criminal for illegal occupying a country they refuse to enter legally, but enabling someone who may have a varied criminal past is wrong and it is not a low level crime.

    If I see a needy person and want to help them, I am not going to care whether they are illegally here or not. I've known many poor needy illegal Mexicans working hard jobs. Many of them are better men than I.

    BurnTheShips

  • lesterd
    lesterd

    Dont need no stinking green card to be a JW, cause your a cititzen of the kingbumb of heaven

  • Pwned
    Pwned

    "Sorry for rant......my families income has been cut in half due to illegal labor."

    Thats the employers fault, not the workers

  • Awakened at Gilead
    Awakened at Gilead

    Are you guys going to kick me off JWD since I don't have my papers in order?

    What about ilegal immigrants hiding on JWD?

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    Here in Los Angeles it's a big issue. I know of some congregations that ignored issues like publishers having car insurance and yet appointed them.

    Regarding those without proper documentation I'd say it's easily half. I had to let some employees go when they gave me fake paperwork and it got bounced back.

  • lalliv01
    lalliv01

    This matter of undocumented immigrants, does it matter to some of us because they are here illegally or because they are "brown" and of a different culture? Europe is a pretty decent place to live and many Europeans don't want to come to America to clean motel rooms, toilets, and change beds - not to mention every other job these undocumented workers are willing to do. We need to accept this fact, that legal or illegal, it's not going to be Europeans picking strawberries here for us.

    "They" are going to be here legally or illegally. Once they are forced to obtain proper documentation, then what excuse are we going to use to send them back? Do you really want them to have "papers"? Many with proper documentation will not wish to return back home as most with no documents now wish to do.

    lalliv01

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