Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 04-27-08 WT Study (YIELDING)

by blondie 22 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  studier

  Thanks again for another wonderful dissection and reminder of the "behind the scenes motives" of these WONDERFULL (of B$) articles. -----studier
• 

  boyzone

  Hi Blondie Thanks for your hard work!

  I found paragraph 14 made me angry. Not YOUR take on it but the misapplication of the scripture written in there. To quote:

  "14. Never should our desire to be yielding, though, lead us to compromise with apostates. Our clear, firm stance in this regard is needed to preserve the purity of the truth and the unity of the congregation. Regarding "false brothers," Paul wrote: "To these we did not yield by way of submission, no, not for an hour, in order that the truth of the good news might continue with you." (Gal. 2:4, 5) In the rare instance that apostasy does appear, devoted Christians will remain firm for what is right."

  When Paul referred to "false brothers" at Gal 2 v 4-5 it was a reference to those that insisted on the law for christians. It was exactly those like the Governing Body who insist on brothers obeying the "full body of theocratic law" that Paul called false brothers.

  I just found it really disgusting that the GB can twist a scripture round so badly to point the finger at those that disagree with their rules when the very scripture they quote actually applies to them!

  When I know that my parents will be at the hall tomorrow lapping up this rubbish and thinking badly of me because of it, my contempt for the GB just grows deeper.
• 

  Alpaca

  Thanks Blondie,

  It's great having you do your schtick again on the WT study articles.

  This study article is just another reinforcement for the Dubs to stifle their powers of reason and thinking and blindly accept whatever the BORG wants them to.

  It is beyond me how they continue to maintain the power they do over the Dubs.

  All the best,

  Alex
• 

  Borgia

  1 John 5:2 is always quoted alone, not in context. see 4:19-21 for what the commandments of God entails....exactly field circus and stuff, clearly laid out in the bible...not...
  
  #7:
  This is counter Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who bewitched you not to obey the truth, to whom before your eyes Jesus Christ was written before among you crucified?
  The disciples of James stumbled about the freedom of the Antioch christians.....Did they yield? This is Paul's own recollection:
  Gal 2:1 Then through fourteen years, I again went up to Jerusalem with Barnabas, also taking Titus with me.
  Gal 2:2 And I went up according to revelation. And I put before them the gospel which I proclaim in the nations, but privately to the ones seeming to be
  pillars, lest I run, or I ran, into vanity.
  Gal 2:3 But not even Titus, the one with me, a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.
  Gal 2:4 But it was because of those false brothers stealing in, who stole in to spy on our freedom which we have in Christ Jesus, they desiring to enslave us,
  Gal 2:5 to whom not even for an hour did we yield in subjection, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
  Gal 2:6 But from those seeming to be something (of what kind they were then does not matter to me; God does not accept the face of man), for those seeming to
  be important conferred nothing to me;
  Gal 2:7 but on the contrary, seeing that I have been entrusted with the gospel of the uncircumcision, even as Peter to the circumcision,
  
  
  #12: Even when divinely constituted authority requests things contrary to bible principle as understood by the individual....it may not be executed- Rom: 14
  Rom 14:22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Blessed is the one not condemning himself in what he approves.
  Rom 14:23 But the one doubting, if he eats, he has been condemned, because it is not of faith; and whatever is not of faith is sin.
  
  
  #13:
  What id divinely constituted authority (I.e. Body of elders) demands us of our undergarment? Should we give it, yield or not? So if needed we should be giving our last cent to the society when and if demanded. (example: nov 1 WT about estate planning and donations)
  
  Q14:
  So, James and his bunch was actually an apostate? The Christian brothers who emphasised the importance of circumcision, to which the Galatians yielded (authority) ex Gal 2? No wonder Paul had kind words to spare for them..... Q15:
  Scriptural principles that apply .......BOE letter that applies........
  
  
  Q16:
  In all his activity, a Christian elder should strive to uphold theocratic order ....as described above: divinely constituted authority = FDS.....meaning...... 1)FDS says so, so yield
  2)elders say so, so yield
  3)husband, father, mother says so, so yield
  4)older person say so, so yield
  There we have the freedom to which Jesus called us..........gone!(Gal 3:1)
  
  
  (I Ki. 22:19-23 ) a spirit of falsehood in all his prophets: 400 prophets had it wrong only one (who was not liked by Ahab) was right.......Ahab was killed by accident....not purpose......as the context states......how does that relate to the whole meaning of the tale...
  Jehovah..DEUT 32:4
  Deu 32:4 He is the Rock; His work is perfect. For all His ways are just, a God of faithfulness, and without evil; just and upright is He.
  ....resorts to lies, falsehood? Hmmmmm!? And we just learned at the C.A. that he has no need for disguise and secrecy.......so it seems....
  
  
  So, as a conclusion it boils down to: it is okay to yield to request from HQ to lie under oath because it means to yield to divinely constituted authority....
  
  
  Cheers
  
  Borgia
• 

  yadda yadda 2

  All in the congregation submit to the arrangement that Jesus made for "the faithful and discreet slave" to provide spiritual food at the proper time. (Matt. 24:45-47) Today, our willingness to study and apply this material demonstrates that we personally are yielding to Christ's headship, which contributes to peace and unity.-Rom. 14: 13,19.

  Submission to the GB means yielding to Jesus!
• 

  yesidid

  Thank you Blondie,

  I so appreciate your WT reviews. Tho I must admit I find it more difficult by the week to

  read their controlling, scheming, calculating hype.

  yesidid
• 

  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Hmmm, para. 14 does seem odd:

  Q 14. Why should we never yield to apostasy?

  14. Never should our desire to be yielding, though, lead us to compromise with apostates. Our clear, firm stance in this regard is needed to preserve the purity of the truth and the unity of the congregation. Regarding "false brothers," Paul wrote: "To these we did not yield by way of submission, no, not for an hour, in order that the truth of the good news might continue with you." (Gal. 2:4, 5) In the rare instance that apostasy does appear, devoted Christians will remain firm for what is right.

  Does the WTS define apostasy or apostates? Isn't it really anything or anyone that does not agree completely with the WTS?

  Would Paul have been considered apostate when he disagreed with other Christians on the resurrection? When he corrected Peter forshunning Gentile Christians, and doing so in front of other Christians?

  What if a jw had not agreed with the 1914 generation before 1995 when the WTS officially changed it? Would they have been cast out as apostate?

  "devoted Christians"--only jws

  Do they support God or the WTS? Is what is right in the WTS publications or the Bible?

  "Compromise with apostates"? Previously, they've stated:

  ***

  w061/15p.23par.13DoNotAllowPlacefortheDevil***

  should we listen to apostates, read their literature, or examine their Web sites on the Internet? If we love God and the truth, we will not do so. We should not allow apostates into our homes or even greet them, for such actions would make us ‘sharers in their wicked works.’

  So, if one would never, ever, ever, never have any slight dealings with 'apostates', how could there even be the remote possiblity of "compromise with apostates"?

  The topic of this paragraph struck me as somewhat out-of-place, like when they inserted the topic of 'oral sex' in the earlier WT lesson about... Do you recall? Shortly after that lesson I asked the WT conductor. He remembered the 'oral sex' part, but he didn't remember a single thing else about the subject matter.

  As boyzone explained, the scripture about "false brothers" is shoehorned to fit. Why would they address unyielding toward 'apostates'? It would seem more logical to just address being unyielding toward 'unbelievers', 'Christendom's teachings', or 'worldly influences'. No, it appears to be aimed specifically at those still inside the congregation.

  Also, the wording seems very carefully measured and crafted. Why do they state, "In the rare instance that apostasy does appear..."? Perhaps the instances are not so rare? It would appear that they know it is a serious problem to address, but they also want to minimize the widespread scale of 'apostate' sympathies.

  Perhaps this is reactionary. They realize that many in the R&F have leanings toward 'apostasy', that is, 'anything or anyone that does not agree completely with the WTS'. Indeed there is much to motivate one to raise, shall we say, questionable questions about last weeks noolite. So, if Brother Oldtimer says, "I remember decades ago when this new 'this generation' was the official belief. Then they changed it, changed it again, and now changed it back. Who are the screwy WT scholars that come up with this flip-flopping", Brother Oldtimer will be an "apostate" now, eh?

  Perhaps this is preparatory, so that no one will make any 'apostate' statements regarding the divine termination of the Congregation Book Study arrangement. Or, maybe they're trying to prepare Sister Tenderheart to not sympathize with the pedophile victims when she hears about the scandals. Stick to the mantra, "the Faithful Slave does nothing wrong", or your an "apostate" Sister Tenderheart. Or perhaps there are more upcoming lessons in the Kool-Aid edition or something bizarre at the district conventions that might cause a possible 'apostate' reaction.

  B the X
• 

  blondie

  Good points, OTWO

  How is it that some elders who sinned 3 years or more ago can be forgiven without restrictions, yet the non-elder who commits the same actions must have restrictions?

  They say the years of continued service shows Jehovah's blessings upon him. Is that true only in his case? Is this a "lesser one" ?

  Saying that the men should reach out for elder, stating they will be princes in the new Earth, is that being "lesser" ?

  Yes, "princes" I was going to put that in, and "gifts in men" and "chieftains" and "sheiks"

  Hey Ruth,

  I was talking to a family member who knows I don't go to meetings and they were completely taken aback and quiet when I mention something spiritual...like that I pray..or I know that I rely on God.

  That's because jws arrogantly think they are the only ones that "really" read the Bible and pray to the "right" God. I saw a brother blown out of the water by a little old Baptist lady who really read the Bible not some church bulletin.

  WTWizard,remember that the religious leaders in Jesus day thought they had God's backing. Jesus pointed out to them their actions that proved they didn't, even calling them serpents and sons of Satan. Conferring on yourself God's backing does not make it so. Actions speak louder than words.

  R&R, actually there are fights among the MS, the elder with the MS and other elders, including other elder BOEs, fights between the BOEs and COs and DOs. Some COs and DOs are pretty powerless against the BOEs unless they remove all the elders, and they who will do the chores? There are always political factions on the BOEs jockeying to have the majority vote. I can remember one elder telling the congregation from the platform that if they weren't happy with the BOE decision, not to donate, Donations dropped dramatically and the aggressive elders had to back down based on this passive-agressive move by the minority faction. Elder bodies have told COs where to stick it, reinstated pedophiles and wife abusers despite the CO feelings to the contrary. Once a BOE reinstates and announces it, the CO is hard pressed to reverse it.

  Thanks bronzefist.

  Hey skeeter1, that could be; they time things out quite far in advance. But then the rank and file need constant reminders to obey the WTS. They aren't very obedient.

  Thanks, studier. The WTS always has an agenda behind every article.

  Thanks boyzone. Remember that the issue of circumcision was not instantly settled in Acts. Even Peter shunned the Gentile Christians long after this decision was made. There continued to be discussions back and forth on the resurrection as well and these were not df'd and/or labeled as apostates.

  Hi Alpaca, I'm glad to be back and I appreciate the help with the scans that Mary gives. Remember that the WTS has their families held hostage. If they leave, will their family cut them off. Also, we were deceived. Ray Franz was in for 60 years before he woke up. I was in for 40 years and made to attempts to leave. It takes a real study of the history of the WTS to see all the lies they have told and are still telling.

  Hey Borgia, I was talking to an inactive jw the other day and he said that the WT material is designed to take away your ability and right to read and make decisions on the Bible. Remember that Jesus sincerely asked his disciples, "what do you think" and allowed them to give a sincere response. And he then followed up with what the Bible say. Never did Jesus say, "you must accept what I say because I am the Christ" but rather because it agreed with the scriptures. Why should we accept what the WTS/FDS/GB says over the what we see the Bible says? Hmmm.

  Hello, yadda, the WTS says they are Jesus' representative on earth and that you cannot get to Jesus without going through them. Kind of cuts out the order of

  Us
  Jesus
  God

  instead

  Us
  FDS/GB/WTS
  Jesus
  God

  Good points, B the X

  Perhaps this is preparatory, so that no one will make any 'apostate' statements regarding the divine termination of the Congregation Book Study arrangement. Or, maybe they're trying to prepare Sister Tenderheart to not sympathize with the pedophile victims when she hears about the scandals. Stick to the mantra, "the Faithful Slave does nothing wrong", or your an "apostate" Sister Tenderheart. Or perhaps there are more upcoming lessons in the Kool-Aid edition or something bizarre at the district conventions that might cause a possible 'apostate' reaction.

  I think in a recent WT (can someone help me here) it was said to obey the WTS even if they are wrong. jws are not trained to think or reason, merely to parrot and obey blindly.

  Good comments everyone.

  Love Blondie
• 

  Borgia

  Hi Blondie,
  
  Yes, I really think it boils down to the question whether or not one feels a personal responsibility or wants to yield to become part of a bigger scheme.
  
  This morning at the meeting I was reflecting on that text in Exodus where it says that the motive for a slave who could become free but wanted to stay, was out of love. Love all right, but the context shows that it was not out of love for his master, as some commentators at the hall claimed but because he loved his wife and children to much. The wife was given to him while in bondage. The children were born to him in bondage. When leaving upon his justified release, he had to leave alone, leaving his loved ones behind. Of course, an owner could have said, you know what, you're a brother, you've served me very well for these 7 years , take you wife and children and be about your business. Instead, he was lured into bondage for the rest of his life.....
  
  I married while in "bondage" to the WTS. I got my children while in "bondage" to the WTS. Given the paragraph and topic in relation to this text, I could not help escape the feeling that they seem to be indicating that it is better to be in bondage to the WTS/FDS as divinely constituted authority than be free, even if it is justified on all counts, better to be in bondage with the ones you love than to be free and start over all alone. They seem to be indicating that letting your love for wife and kids prevail over basic and higher esteemed rights as freedom of choice, religion, conscience,etc, means to serve God better because I would yield to divinely constituted authority.
  
  However, some questions remain to be answered: how far am I willing to go? And when? I have not answered these questions right now, but they seem to be in-escapable at present.
  
  I had 79 points on the apostate quiz. I think that if I'd take that quiz in a months time I will have gone from hard core apostate to son of destruction, no doubt!
  
  Cheers
  
  Borgia
• 

  BluesBrother

  Opening theme scripture.

  "Continue reminding them...to be yielding."--TITUS 3:1,2, ftn

  That was new to me..but the text reads to be "reasonable" but they use an alternative word from the RB12 footnote. Why? To be reasonable is not necessarily to be yielding, it changes the thought of the verse to suit the writer of the article. Is that the correct use of the Bible?

  P11 Divinely constituted authority is also a factor within the Christian congregation. Revelation chapter 1 depicts Christ Jesus as holding the "stars" of the congregation in his right hand. (Rev. 1:16, 20) In a general sense, these "stars" represent the bodies of elders, or overseers, in the congregations.

  So the flock must yield to the Elders - "Divinely constituted authority" - self styled self appointed ....

  P12 "Likewise, when "the superior authorities" proscribe our meetings, we meet discreetly in small groups.-" That is a laugh in view of the announcement that followed the study.

  p17 Each individual Christian ought to value Paul's inspired advice: "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive ["yielding under," ftn.],

  That is the point they want the flock to take away.

  So, it is "be obedient" "yield to" suppress your own thoughts and personality...as my so far faithful family said. "That is how these cults are able to get away with what they do"...................