Why The WTS *IS* To Blame re. Laree

by ISP 21 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Farkel

  : However, only those with knowledge of the WTS really know how culpable the organization is for this crime and many others.

  I will respectfully disagree with some of the comments of people (I also happen to respect) in this thread. Although the WTS has condoned child whooping (I saw it a jillion times), it is a great leap to suggest that they are "responsible" for a parent beating a child to death, let alone "many others."

  This kind of sweeping generalization will not get we opposers anywhere, IMHO.

  Farkel

  "When in doubt, duck!"
• 

  PopeOfEruke

  I heard that in Germany, the Jehovahs Witness religion
  is on a list of organisations that are considered
  child-abusive, this list being compiled by the relevant
  Social department of the German Federal Government.
  I think they were listed as "mild" in the child-abuse category.

  I am not sure if was based on the approval of corporate punishment by JW religion, or else because of the 'cult' association. I believe it was the first reason.

  I can't remember where I read this now, and maybe the status has been changed, but I am sure it was the case at some time in the last decade.

  Maybe someone can confirm this? ....

  The Pope
• 

  ashitaka

  Hey Lionel, I appreciate your point but, "If you give them an inch..."

  ashi
• 

  OUTLAW

  Hey Farkel,good to see you on the board again.I agree with you that "sweeping generalizations" won`t get us anywhere.I do believe WTBS provides a forum that allows for this and other tragedys to happen,whether it is meant or not.As they take no action to make sure this or other atrosities don`t happen again(usualy they just look for some way to cover their ass),I believe they bear some responsability..Respectfully...OUTLAW
• 

  ISP

  Farkel

  We are talking about a religious organisation that chooses to intrude into every area of its followers lives. What it says and does not say on this issue is highly relevant. It still condones physical punishment of minors, which is public(at meetings) and will influence others to treat their kids in a similar fashion so as to fit in. This culture will breed abuse, particularly in certain individuals. If worldy governments can act so as to protect children...would you not expect God's 'nation' to do more so?

  The WTS will claim the plaudits when there is something good to say...i.e. some individual act of kindness etc! But when there is a problem they run a mile. Haha! For the WTS to be blameless they would have to have a clear stand of discouraging physical punishment which they don't.

  I would not be concerned about getting 'anywhere'. This is an important issue and the WTS stance deserves to be made known. Thats about it.

  ISP
• 

  ISP

  Oh BTW I am not talking about culpability in a legal sense! The scriptures talk about 'responsibility' etc with regard to organisations, groups and the like. The WTS points out the failings of other belief systems so I think it is fair to measure them by the same yardstick.

  So thats why Farkel is completely and utterly wrong IMHO!

  ISP
• 

  Englishman

  I agree that smacking a child IS an assault. Most smack-ees become smack-ers because it is learned behaviour, and they reason, falsely, that a good cuff "Never did me any harm".

  My childhood was peppered with little acts of violence by adults who thought that it was the right thing to do. I was caned on the hands by 9 different teachers, mainly for talking in class and for cheeking my tutor. I also remember being a frightened 6 year old who got such a thrashing from Mother that she just couldn't stop, and in her fury just kept hitting and hitting until I felt that I couldn't breathe.

  Her Ladyship and I decided against smacking when we had children, all I know is that they are a damn sight better behaved than I ever was, so now I don't believe in hitting kids. In the UK now, a smacking parent would be immediately challenged by onlookers, so if JW's get away with it in the KH, then to my mind they are just not as advanced as the rest of the world.

  Englishman.

  Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....
• 

  Lionel_P_Hartley

  Outlaw,

  Raised as a JW from birth. It does no good to make the argument that the JWs support gross child abuse because, officially, and actually, they don't. They just refuse (i) to understand that their policies can encourage it among a certain segment of the JW community and (ii) they refuse to admit that serious abuse exists until it happens when they just DF those involved. One has to construct the argument carefully - the problem is that they refuse to deal with excessive physical abuse and child molestation in any rational manner and have polices that prolong such abuses coming to light until something drastic occurs.

  For the record I had a perfectly happy childhood - at least as far as is possible being a JW - and was never abused in any way by my parents. In fact, the WTS discourages disciplining in anger and anyone who follows WTS literature to the letter would do no more than spank their child without incurring injury (not that spanking is desriable, but it's a far cry from the Chicago tragedy).

  There are serious problems, and certainly child and spousal abuse exist - but, as I say, the arguments we make must be factual rather than emotional.

  Lionel
• 

  Bridgette

  Lionel P. and Farkel,
  I agree with the need to be rational vs. emotional in an argument, especially if one has an agenda and more so, if that agenda is a legal one. I do not have an agenda, other than to force the WTS to be honest. I have no hopes that legal reparations would ever be made by the WTS for all the damage that has been done to human lives, nor do I even think, they will ever even come to an end as an organization. As I said, I want them to be honest, and to protect their children.
  For those who say that the WTS does not overtly or covertly propagate abuse, I have to ask again, then, why is child abuse so prevalent in JW culture? There's a case for correlation if not causation.
  I will keep telling this story. I will keep calling for the WTS' moral responsibility (as I've said, I feel there's little hope of establishing legal responsibility--they're just too adept at covering themselves). I will continue to alert people who potentially work with JW children to just watch. Those shiny exteriors can so often bely abuse.
  Peace,
  Bridgette

  p.s. The WTS, and its record on children's rights reminds me of a company that is forced under new laws, and a changing moral environment to afford opportunities and end discrimination against minorities. It can pay all the lip service it wants, but the proof is in the pudding. Look at the results. In JW culture, it is the majority of us who have left ugly childhoods behind colored with physical, spiritual, sexual and mental abuse. The WTS is the one who taught me about community responsibility. By their own teachings, they stand accused and responsible for Laree's death. Toss all the above aside, and simply look at their policy of not reporting suspected abuse immediately to the authorities, and they've broken the law of the land. The WTS has placed themselves in a public trust and extorted total control over its adherants. When one does that, one must take responsibility for what they do. Suspected abuse must be reported to the authorities. period.
• 

  Lionel_P_Hartley

  Bridgette,

  I agree. Further, I think the JW "social" structure encourages those who commit child abuse - it's just that it isn't official WTS policy. Child abuse happens but within the JW community, which is very insular, it tends to get covered up and seeking help from outside has been discouarged. So, I think the case must be made carefully - that WTS policies on discipline, coupled with a lack of policies and procedures to identify and deal with potential child abuse cases early, serves to encourage it in some quarters of the JW community. It's a lot like molestation in that sense. Same with spousal abuse.

  Cheers,

  Lionel